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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: On the number of board members, I asked Mr. Walsh about the allocation. There are hundreds of different configurations can be got with the nine mathematically, if one revolves them round.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay, but there are still many different configurations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: That would happen. It would be quite normal in an organisation, such as a sporting organisation perhaps doing inquiries, a political organisation, a company or whatever that one would flip them around. On the number of people who are handed files and the number of people dealing with them, three seems normal. Mr. Walsh outlined that. Mr. Walsh said that in certain cases it can be less...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Does Mr. Walsh find it odd that there is a large number of infrastructure cases where there were two?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Strategic infrastructure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: What I am asking Mr. Walsh is, if there was strategic infrastructure-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Walsh clarified earlier on and if there were two people deciding on several dozen of those, would he find that odd? Why would that happen? Why has Mr. Walsh allowed that to happen? Can he confirm it happened?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: What if I told Mr. Walsh that it happened?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: In relation to strategic infrastructure, would the same two people alone making several dozen decisions be odd?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I am just using strategic infrastructure. Hypothetically, I am presenting a situation to Mr. Walsh.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: If it happened, why was it not seen?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I will turn to governance and finances. In 2018, the legal fees were €1.2 million. In 2021, they are €8.4 million. That is exceptional. Much of that relates to the strategic housing developments, which are now history and which, I believe, were an awful imposition altogether and were put together on a false basis that somehow the planning process could not be speeded up at...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Also, while these are ongoing, Mr. Walsh has to take legal advice. Mr. Walsh has said that An Bord Pleanála does not have an internal legal person and that it must go outside. I am sure the board, if I was sitting in Mr. Walsh's seat, would be looking for legal advice on a daily basis regarding the multiplicity of investigations and examinations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: In relation to that, never mind when An Bord Pleanála gets the judicial reviews which could be a minefield, does Mr. Walsh envisage this escalating the cost of the legal issues in relation to the board and has he factored this in?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Has An Bord Pleanála completed its 2021 financial statements?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Has the board included a contingent liability in regard to the potential cost of all these examinations and investigations? I am sure it is taking shape at this stage.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: What of 2021?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay, but did Mr. Walsh put in a contingent liability a couple of months ago?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Before a second round of questioning, I must watch it because there are two members who could appear. They could be held up with parliamentary duties or other committee duties. If they appear, I must give them their ten minutes. I propose we proceed in the speaking order, maybe, with four minutes each, and see how we get on. Is that agreed? Agreed. I call Deputy Carthy, who was first.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Be careful, Deputy.

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