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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: Was there anyone else?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: What happened when those concerns were raised?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: Professor Kilcommins must remember that there are thousands of people watching this meeting. All of these eminent individuals, including the solicitor, expressed concerns and the project still moved forward. How did that happen without somebody at a very senior level acknowledging that all of these people had concerns and asking if they should not re-examine the matter?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: I read that.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: To anybody looking at this objectively, it is utter madness. We have four or five eminent people, probably more, at different times basically saying they have concerns in respect of what was happening. Two external reports stating that there were issues in relation to valuations and other issues came in, and yet the project still proceeded to the next level.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: It almost comes across from Professor Kilcommins last statement that the series of meetings moved this to the next level. There was almost a manufacturing process.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: I am just summating that from the evidence Professor Kilcommins has given to all three of us. Would that be a fair assumption?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: They were being bypassed.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: It is the same thing.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: That is startling evidence. I have been at this for a number of years and that is startling evidence.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: I know. That is why I said it is like a soap opera or a miniseries. Was there an attempt at any stage in recent years to change the role of the chief corporate officer?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: I ask that in light of the concerns Professor Kilcommins has outlined.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: What happened?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: I am not getting into the individual's name or anything like that. I am just basically asking whether, given the concerns Professor Kilcommins outlined in regard to the meetings, anyone said that there was a need to reorient - perhaps more than just one role - or rejig roles? Was there any attempt to do that?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: To a separate-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: I find it hard to understand but, reading the documentation, I can see how the bypassing-overruling manufactured meetings argument takes place but it is still the governing authority that has to make the final decision. The governing authority cannot be overruled or bypassed.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: When the €10.9 million became €11.9 million, did that not go back to the governing authority and did somebody not say "Hold on a second, what's going on here?"? I know what was passed by the governing authority was €10.9 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: I saw that.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: That is incredible. So essentially, after finding out that there was an excess of €1 million to paid, which was then cut in half or a bit more than that, that balloon payment never went through the governing authority. The going around or going over continued to that level. Would it be fair to say that?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Alan Kelly: It was all in one.

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