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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: I welcome our guests and reiterate our appreciation and thanks to all OPW staff for their work, particularly during the Covid-19 period. It has not gone unnoticed. I seek a little information on the measured term maintenance contracts awarded to PJ Hegarty & Sons over a long period. The report of the Comptroller and Auditor General deals with the period from 2015, but I understand...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Yes, and the costs. To clarify, we are dealing with the period from 2015, when the contract was first put in place and it was extended in 2018. Under the contract, minor construction works were allowed up to the value of €500,000, but six of the works, which range from €600,000 to €2.4 million, were clearly in excess of that. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: When the contract was originally tendered, it was envisaged that works of approximately €3 million per annum would take place. It amounted to about €12 million over the course of the contract but the figure was actually closer to €10 million per year, or €39.4 million in total.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: In 2019, partly because of Brexit, there was an additional €7.4 million. The total up to the end of last year was €46.8 million.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Has the OPW carried out an analysis of the initial four-year contract in respect of what it would cost if some or all of the works undertaken under this contract were undertaken in house? Has there been a cost-benefit crossover analysis?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Does Mr. Buckley mean 2013 or 2014?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: I apologise for cutting across Mr. Buckley but some of the basis for the approach was as a result - Mr. Buckley might correct me if I am wrong - of a circular issued by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in 2013. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Before Mr. McMahon comments, that circular stated, "The majority of works are procured via external contractors as OPW’s direct labour force has been significantly reduced and cannot fulfil the role for all property". It seems there was an acceptance within that that the austerity and staff reduction measures that had been put in place played a role in the outsourcing of these...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: We have determined that a contract that was envisaged to amount to about €12 million over the course of four years actually amounted to closer to €50 million over that period. More recently, in October 2018, a new tender was appreciated. The provisions the OPW put in place, that is, the guidelines for contracting companies, meant there was, in effect, only one qualifying...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: I apologise for cutting across Mr. McMahon but what the OPW did was employ a set of parameters that meant only one company was in a position to qualify for the contract. In the documentation, the OPW set out an expected value of €5 million per annum, which was an increase on the €3 million but was nowhere close to the out-turn in place in the term of the previous contract. Why...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: I am sorry, I know there is a difficulty with the connection as we cross over one another. I will ask the following question of Mr. Buckley. How is it possible to determine that a contract tender is good value for money where there is essentially nothing to compare it to, where there is only one contract? Does Mr. Buckley accept that there were failings in that process? We can presume...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: Of course.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6 - Expenditure under a Maintenance Contract
2019 Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
(11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: I apologise for interrupting, but my time is up. Perhaps Mr. McMahon could send the committee some further written clarification. I will just say that I find it impossible to understand a context where one can assess value for money when there is only one tender. I understand that things happen and we can do things differently but we have a problem when we have these kinds of figures and...

Written Answers — Department of An Taoiseach: Departmental Properties (11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: 30. To ask the Taoiseach if his Department or bodies under the aegis of his Department rent office space from a company (details supplied) or an Irish subsidiary; the number of employees who work out of such office space; the length of time they have been working from the offices; the cost to date of renting such offices; and the tender process by which it was decided to make use of the...

Written Answers — Department of Trade, Enterprise and Employment: Departmental Properties (11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: 38. To ask the Minister for Trade, Enterprise and Employment if his Department or bodies under the aegis of his Department rent office space from a company (details supplied) or an Irish subsidiary; the number of employees who work out of such office space; the length of time they have been working from the offices; the cost to date of renting such offices; the tender process by which it was...

Written Answers — Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Departmental Properties (11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: 43. To ask the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment if his Department or bodies under the aegis of his Department rent office space from a company (details supplied) or an Irish subsidiary; the number of employees who work out of such office space; the length of time they have been working from the offices; the cost to date of renting such offices; the tender process by...

Written Answers — Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport: Departmental Properties (11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: 59. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if his Department or bodies under the aegis of his Department rent office space from a company (details supplied) or an Irish subsidiary; the number of employees who work out of such office space; the length of time they have been working from the offices; the cost to date of renting such offices; the tender process by which it was...

Written Answers — Department of Finance: Departmental Properties (11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: 74. To ask the Minister for Finance if his Department or bodies under the aegis of his Department rent office space from a company (details supplied) or an Irish subsidiary; the number of employees who work out of such office space; the length of time they have been working from the offices; the cost to date of renting such offices; the tender process by which it was decided to make use of...

Written Answers — Department of Public Expenditure and Reform: Departmental Expenditure (11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: 81. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if his Department or bodies under the aegis of his Department rent office space from a company (details supplied) or an Irish subsidiary; the number of employees who work out of such office space; the length of time they have been working from the offices; the cost to date of renting such offices; the tender process by which it was...

Written Answers — Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht: Raidió Teilifís Éireann (11 Nov 2020)

Matt Carthy: 84. To ask the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht the reason for the delay in the publication of the annual report by RTÉ for 2019; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [35515/20]

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