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Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: That is new.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: I did not say that.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: I did not suggest that.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: It was not. I was there.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: The party got rid of Alan Dukes for doing it.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: I have listened to the debate with great interest. I agree with Senator Bannon that one can change one's mind on policy. I have no difficulty with that. That is the evolution in which we, in politics, are all involved. I made the remark in the context of the constitutionality point where when one had a different point of view one did not have a constitutional problem with the Bill. The...

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: Let us be clear. I have heard it said all morning. It is an extraordinary approach for Senators to take. It comes back to the point I have been making and which runs through this Bill. I have stated my view given the involvement and demands of local government. I see no reason as we go forward, given the opportunity this presents us, that that should be part of the possibility. For people who...

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: I am not. I am quoting what was said.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: I am being accurate.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: I was elected to Dáil Éireann at 32 years of age. Since then I have listened to debate after debate, political party after political party, talk about reform. There have been complaints – many of them well founded, others not so well founded – that we are not doing anything about real reform. The minute one goes to the heart of really cutting the umbilical cord between local government...

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: One has to look at the logic of what we are saying. I am trying to separate – I am quite open about this – the role of local government and national Government. It is clear from the debate that, psychologically, people do not want to see that cord cut. It is my view that it should be cut. Senators have raised legitimate points about the role of local government and the over-centralisation...

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: The word "reform" is probably the most abused word over a range of issues. Everybody likes to talk about reform.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: It is a great corner to go to when one has nothing else to say. I never suggested when I brought it forward six or seven months ago, when I discussed it in public and with colleagues, that this was the package. This is the psychological break that needs to be made so that reforms can be brought in. I agree with Senator Bannon and my colleagues that, when this break is made, there will be...

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: Members must understand their roles and how to develop them. I agree with much that Senator White said. It is not undemocratic but unhealthy that there are not enough women in public life.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: Political correctness does not frame my view but legitimacy, and the diversity that can bring to public life. I have spent time talking to women's groups and realise it is a difficult issue. Women need support and encouragement and I am happy to provide that. However, when an attempt is made to find women to go into politics, the number willing to do so melts away, which is disappointing. I...

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: We are arguing opposite points of view. I take the view that the dual mandate should end. That would be good for public life, local government, the Seanad and Dáil Éireann. It would be good for the enhancement of our respective roles that the structural cross-overs that exist will be removed. There will, of course, be complementary roles between the existence and demands of local and...

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: I remind Senator Tuffy that I quoted Article 18.2 of the Constitution which says that "a person to be eligible for membership of Seanad Éireann must be eligible to become a member of Dáil Éireann". I quoted directly from the Constitution.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: I never said that.

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: We have discussed these issues at length, but at the heart of the point being made is the question of whether or not we are making the break between local and national government. If we are, this Bill is the way to do it. Senator Tuffy has effectively proposed that we consider the matter for six years, instead of thinking about it for the next 12 months, which begs the question "How long is a...

Seanad: Local Government Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (6 Mar 2003)

Martin Cullen: It would be unfair of me to quote what they said, but I can say that they did not convey to me that there had been a major policy shift with regard to the dual mandate.

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