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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Amendment No. 54 sets out a long list of public service bodies, starting with Departments of State, the Garda Síochána and so forth. These bodies come within the ambit of section 5(3)(k) on page 7.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I ask the Deputy to bear with me. Section 5(3)(k) states: "communications between persons who are designated public officials or members of the staff of, or engaged for the purposes of, a public service body relevant to their capacity as such and relating to the functions of the public service body." These are the exempt communications.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Yes, they enjoy exemption. The bodies listed in the other Schedule to be inserted at the end of the Bill are exempted from the exemption unless I designate them. Is that clear?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Perhaps it would be better to describe these bodies as not being exempted from the exemption.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: There is equivalence and I intend to include them from the beginning. They are what used to be county managers.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I have no difficulty with that category. I am more concerned about newly elected members of local authorities than for the chief executives of local authorities because it will come as a bit of a shock to them.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: It will come a shock to some of them.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I do not have a closed mind on this; I simply have not signed off on it. If people have a strong view about another category that would be captured by subsection(f) from commencement, they can submit that to me and I will submit my list to them in advance of Report Stage.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: If there is any category we can capture in the first iteration, without it being too onerous, I will give it consideration.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: The Deputy is staying up too late at night thinking about these difficult cases.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I have a practical difficulty with what the Deputy is suggesting. The intention of the Bill is that lobbying activity will be regulated through the process of registration and reporting we set out. The responsibility for registration and reporting is assigned in all of the frameworks for the Bill to the person doing the lobbying. The Deputy suggests reversing that.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Yes, in this instance. I understand the Deputy's point, but he can see what would happen. We have discussed local authority members. If anybody talks to them about whether Ireland is a good place to talk about or invest in, they will have a legal obligation to register and report that. I know from attending international fora in Brussels or Council meetings that one meets hundreds of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: That is the truth. The notion that I would have a legal obligation to report and register all of that does not make sense. I should probably not say this, but people come up to me at receptions abroad to talk to me about a million things after what could have been my eighth meeting of the day. That would be a burden which I would not be keen on taking on, and I would not be keen to place...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: They will be.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: This is something we have rehearsed a few times now. As Deputies have said, I have the power to prescribe further public servants. It is my intention, under subsection (f), to include Secretaries General and assistant secretaries general. We can discuss this again, but including all Ministers, Ministers of State, all Members of the Dáil, all Members of Seanad Éireann, all Members...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: They will be-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I will include them from the beginning by order under subsection (f). I intend to include principal officers as soon as may be after that.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Yes, from the beginning.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I did not want a list. I do not want to say "Secretaries General and assistant secretaries general" because I intend to include principal officers as soon as may be after that.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Registration of Lobbying Bill 2014: Committee Stage (25 Nov 2014)

Brendan Howlin: From the date of commencement, Secretaries General of Departments and assistant secretaries general will be prescribed by me under order of subsection (f).

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