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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Ms Murphy-Fagan is very positive about that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Okay. I am sure they will be watching in here. If they have a disagreement, they will come to us. I have a few more issues. On the procurement of goods and services, these are high users of procurement of outside services. Had the Comptroller and Auditor General no worries about procurement practices regarding IT, legal, accountancy?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: The reason I ask is I would like to go into this a little regarding IT services. How many staff are working in IT?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Can we go through it? Could Ms Murphy-Fagan outline it to the committee because we have certain experience inside here and I need to deal with this? On the use of IT contractors, would she outline the volume of IT contractors? Can she give a sample of the scale of these contracts and the range - from low to high - of who provides services to the office? The committee has encountered a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: What is the total number of staff of the office?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: The office does no IT internally, or is it minimal?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: There must be a huge number of external contracts.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: I wish to know about tenders. Will the witness provide a spreadsheet of all IT suppliers, tenders, dates, values and so forth?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Before coming to this meeting I spoke to a number of union representatives who represent members who work in the office. To be honest, it was not a good experience in that they felt many of the staff were demoralised in respect of a number of issues. I will outline them to the witness and she can respond because, obviously, we must have both sides of the equation. They had difficulty...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: It is both. The 134,000 have issues with those six matters and the people working in the office find it difficult to explain why they cannot provide a better service for the 134,000.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: I have raised the issues so I will move to my next questions. In an effort to be helpful, does the witness think she has enough staff?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Does Ms Murphy-Fagan think she needs more staff? Is the office adequately staffed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Does she believe the training processes in place are working or could they be improved?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Could it be improved?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: I wish to make a suggestion to the witness based on listening to people and experience. Given the number of people the office is dealing with, we are bound to get information from them. When one centralises a system such as this, particularly with regard to HR, it is a system and process where one must follow rules and logic. I am a former IT manager so I understand the process by which it...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Underspend. Overspend would be a different issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: As regards moving to financial shared services, the underspend does not overly concern me because of the scale of the project but the NSSO will be getting into an area which is quite dynamic and many of the management processes with which the witnesses will be dealing will end up being dealt with by this committee if they fail. The responsibility as to how that happens and the break-off...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: The Chairman will have to dig it out.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: I hope Deputy Aylward has the same pleasure some day.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 10: Shared Services - Management of Salary Overpayments
Appropriation Accounts 2016
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office
(1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Where will the responsibilities of the NSSO stop? The shared services section of the HSE mirrors the work of the NSSO in regard to that massive organisation. Do the witnesses envision the NSSO being responsible for shared services for these three areas across the whole public service in ten years?

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