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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: All right.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Move away from the wall tiles in that case.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I know.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: One last thing. I attended the opening at Trumera the other day. It is a fantastic job, and well done to everyone involved. It is a very small school - probably the smallest one that will be opened this year - and it looks fantastic. Would a clerk of works have been visiting that site regularly? I am just trying to get an indication here that, from a public accounts point of view, the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Is Mr. Loftus saying that they might not be called in on smaller projects?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I am talking about smaller projects. There are a couple of them. There is one coming through, I hope, for Kolbe Special School in Portlaoise or the likes of Trumera National School. Say it is project valued at €2 million. Does a clerk of works call? I am trying to get this answer out of Mr. Loftus. Does a clerk of works call, or who is there? Who protects the taxpayer's interest?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Do they pop in unannounced?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: That is okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I accept that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. Loftus for that answer. On school estates, Mr. Loftus mentioned that 87% of schools - I see it in the documentation - are owned by the Department. Are the ETB schools accounted for in that 87%? That is "Yes" or "No".

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: My apologies.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: It is 4%.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I would have thought ownership by the ETBs was far higher than that. Of the ones that are-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: All right.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Eighty seven per cent is a high figure - it was over 90% a few years ago - for schools not owned by the Department. A decade ago, it was well over 90%. Mr. Loftus mentioned a charity. There is a school in Ballyroan that the parish has handed to the community. That is fantastic, but the parish could have done something else with it. There is a very progressive priest in the area, Fr....

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: All right.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Who is the patron typically? Is it the Protestant bishop or the Catholic bishop?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: In an urban area, you might have a school being replaced because there is a new one being built down the road. That is being sold. The original site was owned by the parish. Say it is sold for €200,000. What happens to that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Hold on a second. If the State built the school in the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s or 1980s, is there a clawback for the State when it is sold?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Education
2018 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 7 - Purchase of Sites for School Provision
2019 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 8 - Management of the Schools Estate
(7 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: There is a clawback.

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