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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. Masding and his colleagues for attending.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: We are resuming in public session. I welcome Mr. Wim Verbraeken, chief executive officer of KBC Bank Ireland, and his colleagues. I understand that this is their first appearance before an Oireachtas committee. I draw the attention of witnesses to the fact that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: I thank Deputy McGrath and I call Deputy Pearse Doherty.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: I spoke to Mr. Verbraeken earlier. I am a customer of the bank, as I am of other banks. KBC Bank has a branch in Kilkenny. I have to say I have been impressed by the manner in which the bank engages with customers, both through its technology and through its branches. When Mr. Verbraeken agreed to come before the committee today, because the bank has a different offering and a different...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: It is a public meeting.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: If I went to the public meeting tonight and I repeated at that public meeting that my position was as Mr. Verbraeken has outlined, I would probably be lynched before I would get to the exit door. That is how angry the customers are. They are angry because of the lack of information and the devastating effects of living in banking limbo is causing them such distress. Mr. Verbraeken has...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: If there are customers, either in the Public Gallery or watching this on their screens, who hear that message that if they are in this type of difficulty, there is a way in the bank of addressing their case specifically based on the hardship, financial and otherwise, they may be experiencing, will the bank reach out to those people?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: Has KBC Bank had that kind of contact already from individuals involved in this tracker issue? Have individuals come forward stating that they are in difficulty and they need the bank's immediate attention, and asking can the bank deal with them? Has KBC Bank had that experience to date? Has the bank dealt with customers like that in a positive way?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: But if the bank had, it would obviously deal with them is what Mr. Verbraeken is telling us.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: At least we have that much information for them. How robust is the banks' paper trail in respect of all of these accounts? Is Mr. Verbraeken satisfied that the bank has sufficient information on each account that makes him believe the bank may have all of the information or does he feel there are gaps in the bank's system?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: Okay. In terms of dealing with the Central Bank, KBC Bank will not meet the deadline. Obviously, KBC Bank will inform the Central Bank of that. Is KBC Bank expecting to be sanctioned because of that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: An issue was raised earlier with Mr. Verbraeken about one particular client having to pay €800 in excess. A comment was made earlier about dealing with individual cases that might come to the bank. I presume such a case falls into this category.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: Will the bank address the cases of people in financial difficulty who find themselves in scope because the bank has not addressed their tracker mortgage issue and who come forward and state the bank is causing them to lose their home or not be able to look after family matters in a way in which they would like? Ms Deering is saying the bank will attend to this.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: I will not get into the figures, because the witnesses will not tell us what they are, but in 2016 the bank believed it had a small number of tracker cases. Has this dramatically changed? Do the witnesses consider dealing with these trackers to be a big, small or medium problem for the bank?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: When that number of cases was identified in 2016 the bank addressed the issue.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: Okay. Is there any message the witnesses want to give to this public meeting?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: We asked other banks about a solution. KBC is not prepared to give a date by which it might deal with all of these issues, but Christmas is usually a deadline by which people try to deal with as much as they can. Do the witnesses believe the bank can issue any type of statement in this regard? Are they reluctant to do so?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: Do the witnesses believe they will come back to the committee at that stage and perhaps go through the numbers and the compensation packages?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Permanent TSB and KBC Bank (28 Sep 2017)

John McGuinness: I stress again, because I understand the difficulties of the customers, that this is a missed opportunity for the bank attending the committee hearing today not to avail of the public opportunity to signal something to the customers. The witnesses have apologised and said the bank is prepared to look at individual cases should people be in difficulty, and I presume it will be made a priority...