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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: The Department of Finance would have to have them. Now I appreciate-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Could we get those figures? Could they be requested from the Department of public expenditure in order that we have those figures and know what the projected spend is out to 2030?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: What time of the year is it made?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: There are no figures for each year in the Department. I am not trying to be difficult; I am trying to get an overall picture of the financial planning out for the next five or six years.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: There is nothing in the Department which indicates what the figure is, that it may vary slightly up or down depending on the number of applications but that this is the projection.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Does the Department have figures up to 2027 or 2028?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Would Mr. Rafferty be able to prepare a note for the committee on the information he has to hand in respect of the breakdown of the €2.2 billion, if that is what it is? Just the information that he has available. That would be really useful for the committee. I want to go to Mr. Rafferty’s statement and the untruth to the effect that the grant covers 100% of the work...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Yes. I do not know how much evidence we can supply to prove that this grant is not 100% or anywhere near 100%.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: That is completely splitting hairs. The grant does not cover 100% of the work. That is a fact. If it did, I would not be here giving the case of a woman in her 50s parenting on her own in Westport. I could give Mr. Rafferty details of many more cases. Should homeowners in Mayo highlight for Mr. Rafferty a number of cases that will tell him that the grant does not cover 100% of the work?...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Which February was it done in?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Is there anyone here in the room who was on the implementation steering group?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Mr. Rafferty was on it. Were all the issues being raised, like affordability and people being locked out of the scheme, those who could not get onto the scheme because they could not afford it, included?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: That was not the remit. It is not what the Minister asked us to do. The terms of reference for the group were to produce a report based on how well the scheme was delivering within the current legislative framework, guidelines and regulations that were there. So it was how well it was delivering on that basis. It was not to look at issues such as those mentioned by the Deputy, like cost...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I am just trying to get to how the Minister could be satisfied with the progress that was being made when so many people are locked out of the scheme because they cannot even afford to access it. I am trying to match that up in terms of the report and the Minister being satisfied. The report led him to believe that he was satisfied.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Representatives from Engineers Ireland were before the committee last week. We have spoken at previous meetings about foundations not being tested and so on. Riddle me this: how can Mr. Rafferty say a scheme is operating satisfactorily – and the Minister, the report, the steering group all agree that it is operating satisfactorily – when we have a situation where there is real...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: It is becoming more and more apparent IS 465 is absolutely not fit for purpose. I am trying to reconcile how we can be so happy with a scheme where we have standards that are not fit for purpose.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I understand that and we have gone over that. I want to move on a bit. Something else does not add up either. Why has the Department removed the science and testing by the chartered engineers registered under the IS 465 standard report and the recommendations of option 1 from the new scheme? Why was the homeowner's engineer with building condition assessment replaced? Why replace the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: That is right.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I just think it is baffling-----

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