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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: If the two organisations do not know the number, how can they know if they need to fix a problem? The dogs on the street know that sewage is going into rivers. The reports talk about phosphorous and a model is used. As a result of Uisce Éireann and the local authorities not knowing, the farmer has a red mark over him or her. A farmer in Leitrim was in derogation but is out of it now....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Okay, but-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Will that investment process and all of this work be done by 2025?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: No, I am asking a straightforward question. Will it be done by 2025? The farmers of Ireland on the derogation are up to date on all the results of water quality as they relate to the derogation going forward. Is it fair to say that the answer to whether the work will be done is “No”?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Sure, I could start the job tomorrow and not have it done by 2025. Anyone who knows anything about this work knows that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Please do. My next question is for the Department. I am not a scientist, but am I right in saying that four criteria are used when assessing water quality?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Who came up with those?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I apologise for my ignorance, but I just want to know about it. There are four criteria used and if farmers go down in one of the criteria, they are gone. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: At one time, when doing the leaving certificate examinations if students got three questions right and one wrong, they passed. They would get a B grade, or whatever. In this situation, by contrast, if farmers go down in one of the criteria, they are gone.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Is it a very high threshold?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Are scientific people in Europe telling us what they want to get over the line? If the Department were setting it out, in fairness to it, some of those things would not be included. Would that be fair to say? Europe is trying to move the Department to a particular standard.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I am sorry for interrupting. Dr. Archbold said, "if the Commission is willing to listen". What is the hope of that? I do not want to be codding farmers. That is it. The guillotine may be coming today or tomorrow. Someone in the Commission is setting out criteria to the Department, which is getting a raft of criteria from Europe, and is telling the Department that the Commission can give...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: When will decisions be made as to what the criteria will be for the next review?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I am trying to understand. Nitrates affect one part of the country and the rest of it is affected by phosphorous. Who set up the model? Modelling has been done. When I sample the water and then ring the Department, I am asked how many cows and cattle and other things are in the area. I will be asked about Irish Water in the area. A model is being used. Who did up that model and how...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I ask Dr. Archbold to correct me if I am wrong in my understanding. The committee has heard from representatives of the EPA. Some 286 are tested regularly. Off the top of my head, and I am open to correction on this point, I believe 1,680 are tested once a year. The rest are tested every few years. Is that correct? The Cathaoirleach, Senators Lombard and Paul Daly and I were in Brussels...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Is there agreement from the Department and all parties? I have a last question for Inland Fisheries. There could be a farmer in derogation, or a swathe of farmers, who are doing everything right and to the best of their abilities and have enough storage. I agree that storage is awfully important. There could be a person two miles down the road from those farmers who is not in derogation....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: That question is for the Department and then I will have a last question for Inland Fisheries.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I am not even talking about the closed period. I am talking about circumstances where a farmer do not do something by the letter. Contractors have to keep their distance from streams and do everything right. There could be a host of farmers up the way who are on derogations and doing everything 100% right. Derogation is the game in town at the moment but if someone who is not on...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: My last question is for Inland Fisheries. I saw fish kills in County Clare. Are fish kills throughout the country being monitored? Is it fair to say the biggest fish kills have not been at the hand of farmers? That is how it seems from the monitoring I have done of various fish kills throughout the country. Who ended up paying the price at the end of it? Who is Inland Fisheries bringing...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Compliance with the Nitrates Directive and Implications for Ireland: Discussion (Resumed) (20 Mar 2024)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Does Mr. Fox have them here?

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