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Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: There is a little bit of a lacuna in the law. I mean spending money from dormant accounts is always considered to be Exchequer spending because, technically speaking under the present law, it lives in the fiction that every dime that was every put into dormant accounts from the very beginning could all on some fine day be claimed back by the original owners. We know that the Central Bank...

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Yes, but when one takes out the withdrawals-----

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: On average that is what happening. The idea that some years not only is that going to be nil, but there will be such a draw that all of the money goes back is crazy.

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: We will allow that there is a statutory reserve so we are probably talking about €200 million. We had it down to €20 million or €30 million when I was there. I know what the problem is, namely, that the Government considers it as new expenditure even though it is coming out of dormant accounts. How much of the dormant accounts spend now is going to State agencies as...

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: It seems to me that some Departments saw the dormant accounts fund as a source of substitute Government funding for agencies such as the HSE, for example, as opposed to funding for voluntary groups on the ground, which was the original idea. On subhead A4, did the Department think of putting some of this unspent money into the western investment fund? Since 2011, the Western Development...

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: There is a solution to that and Fianna Fáil would certainly facilitate the passage in one day of a two-line Bill. Now, what is the problem?

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: We have become so legalistic in this place. My attitude to this is that if a person says there is a legal impediment we just change the law. We are the law makers and that is why we are here. On the national rural development schemes, subhead A5, the Minister should tell us what he expects to have spent under that subhead this year.

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: I am referring to subhead A5.

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: I meant the capital-----

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Is it not €11,383,000?

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: My quick calculations indicate that there is just over €10 million left over.

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Unlike Deputy Burke, I do not believe in inspecting everything but I do believe in the odd spot check. I saw work that was funded by Departments that was very badly done. It is important and to be honest, it is just good practice. While the onus is on the local authorities to spend, the onus is on the Minister not to give more money to those who do not spend. As the saying goes, fool me...

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: The figure is incorrect. The allowable, between animation and administration, is 20% and that is what it came to in the previous Leader programme.

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: The Minister can check to his heart's content but I know what I am saying.

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: What is also true is that at the beginning administration costs are relatively high. This year, for example, of the €11 million spent on Leader, more than €10 million relates to administration, amounting to 90% of overall costs. I would never throw that at the Minister because I know it levels off over time. We are now at €11 million, with a few hundred thousand euro...

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: A small sample would suffice-----

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Good.

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: That is current. The amount spent on the actual projects was €150,000 or €160,000.

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Is that €11 million in capital spending?

Select Committee on Rural and Community Development: Estimates for Public Services 2017
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
(15 Nov 2017)

Éamon Ó Cuív: In reality, one would be lucky to get €4 million or €5 million.

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