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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I am just using strategic infrastructure. Hypothetically, I am presenting a situation to Mr. Walsh.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: If it happened, why was it not seen?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I will turn to governance and finances. In 2018, the legal fees were €1.2 million. In 2021, they are €8.4 million. That is exceptional. Much of that relates to the strategic housing developments, which are now history and which, I believe, were an awful imposition altogether and were put together on a false basis that somehow the planning process could not be speeded up at...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Also, while these are ongoing, Mr. Walsh has to take legal advice. Mr. Walsh has said that An Bord Pleanála does not have an internal legal person and that it must go outside. I am sure the board, if I was sitting in Mr. Walsh's seat, would be looking for legal advice on a daily basis regarding the multiplicity of investigations and examinations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: In relation to that, never mind when An Bord Pleanála gets the judicial reviews which could be a minefield, does Mr. Walsh envisage this escalating the cost of the legal issues in relation to the board and has he factored this in?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Has An Bord Pleanála completed its 2021 financial statements?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Has the board included a contingent liability in regard to the potential cost of all these examinations and investigations? I am sure it is taking shape at this stage.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: What of 2021?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay, but did Mr. Walsh put in a contingent liability a couple of months ago?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Before a second round of questioning, I must watch it because there are two members who could appear. They could be held up with parliamentary duties or other committee duties. If they appear, I must give them their ten minutes. I propose we proceed in the speaking order, maybe, with four minutes each, and see how we get on. Is that agreed? Agreed. I call Deputy Carthy, who was first.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Be careful, Deputy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I ask Mr. Walsh to answer that question concisely.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy is over time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy wants to know where these minimum densities are written down.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I will bring in Ms Graham, the assistant secretary for planning.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: The term "have regard to"-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: This comes up over and over again at local authority level.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: The terms "having regard to" is littered throughout planning. The Deputy is correct.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: I agree with the Deputy that it is elastic.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Brian Stanley: Could Ms Graham come back with the clarification? She is saying there is a legal interpretation. That would be helpful for the committee and the Deputy. In fairness to the Deputy, she has been trying to probe the weight of it. I suppose that is the term I would use.

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