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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: There is no need to give it by year but Mr. Ó hÓbáin could set it out generally.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I still did not get my proposal of a plus one channel for RTÉ 2 accepted yet.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Is the channel on its way? When will we get to ring the bell?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: We will come to cybersecurity in a moment. Broadband dominated today. It was said that the gap-funded model was used for the first broadband scheme. Could the witnesses refresh our memory on what scheme that was?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: What happened at the end of the five years? Did it work out?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I might ask the Comptroller and Auditor General if any other Department used the gap-funded model on the same basis as we are talking about here where the infrastructure is in the ownership of the contractor as opposed to the State.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. McCarthy can come back to us if he finds anything. What if the contractor goes bust and walks away after two or three years? What is the fall-back for the State? Are there guarantees or bonds from the investors? I know we do not want to think about it but things do happen. We have seen it with Carillion so it is not impossible that something could go wrong.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Okay, that is fine. Mr. Griffin mentioned he looked at the cost of purchasing Eir’s assets. Somebody asked if he looked at buying them back and he said he had a look at the value of them. The assets have changed hands four or five times in recent years. One would find out what the company is worth in a split second if one looked at the market capitalisation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Who did the Department get to do that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Who were the advisers?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: It was an internal desktop exercise.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Before we deal with cybersecurity, Mr. Griffin sent us a document last night, which we call No. 177A. He asked us not to publish it. It was part of the briefing material.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: It is a 13-page document. This morning we decided we would note it and discuss it but not publish it, in deference to Mr. Griffin’s request, but we asked him to reconsider it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Griffin can come back and let us know, and if there is a particular sentence about a third party he does not want to include we can take that into account.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: There is, and we have used it extensively today. It would be nice if we could publish it but we will not do it before Mr. Griffin comes back to us.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Could Mr. Griffin also please send it without the watermark?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I apologise to the witnesses from An Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces. They might have learnt something that might be helpful in the course of cybersecurity here today, especially when it comes to rural broadband and metropolitan area networks.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: No, but I am trying to make it sound good. Mr. McCarthy has an opening statement on this section, as does Mr. Griffin. There is a specific chapter in the Comptroller and Auditor General’s annual report connected with this Department. We thought we would have finished with the discussion of broadband a little earlier and that is why we held off the cybersecurity section to the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Griffin held over a paragraph of his contribution this morning dealing with cybersecurity.

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