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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Professor Lane has agreed to a meeting and to accept the correspondence that I have. The reason I am pushing this is that it sends out the wrong signals. I do not know this individual. He had no motive other than to do the right thing. What would other whistleblowers or risk managers in the banks say when looking at the example of Mr. Sugarman who is now not employed, in extremely poor...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: No.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: It might have been said by a member or, indeed, it might have been said by Mr. Sugarman, but the comparison was made to a person driving at a 100 mph, even if it was for five minutes, where the speed limit was 80 mph. That person is breaking the speed limit. If the Garda stopped him within that five minutes, he got a ticket. It goes back to the same thing as before.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Just one second. In this instance, for more than five minutes, it was 20 times over the limit and nothing was done. It sends out the wrong message. It is the complete wrong message. Mr. Sugarman came here and gave a convincing submission to this committee. He would contradict some of the things Professor Lane would say. I believe that a meeting relative to that case with Mr. Sugarman...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Those kinds of breaches wrecked the country.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Of course they did.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: I am talking relative to regulation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: They broke the regulation. They broke the law.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: I will leave it at this for the moment. The risk manager reads the legislation and the law and understands fully his obligation. He is so frightened by what is happening in the bank about not just one case one day, but a number of them, that he decides to risk his job and tell the Central Bank that there is something wrong. He went to the Garda and said that he had broken the law and told...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: I am just telling Professor Lane what happened.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: If one breaks the law temporarily, one breaks the law. When one breaks the law, in accordance with the banking rules, regulations and legislation, there are sanctions and penalties. This is why questions are always asked about the Central Bank and how it behaves towards bigger banks and what it expects of individuals in the bank. That individual and individuals like him also deserve the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: I am very much aware of that legislation and so are a number of others who turned out to be whistleblowers. Therefore, in the spirit of that legislation and in arranging this meeting with Mr. Sugarman, we need to explore all of that. I am prepared to park this part of the questioning until we meet, but I will come back to it. I also want to send the Central Bank some information on the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: If the Central Bank has, fine. I will not go into it in detail.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Is the Central Bank made aware of where it is found a bank overcharged a customer - I refer to a substantial sum of €1.2 million - or how is its attention drawn to such an issue? Does a complaint have to be made directly to the Central Bank where in a court case it was found a bank had overcharged its customer by €1.2 million, which is a significant sum?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: I did not realise it was raised.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: I might come back on that in correspondence. There are these last few housekeeping matters. I will send on to the Central Bank the information that I have identified. Having been here for a long day, the officials might reflect on the range of issues that we have discussed. Maybe there is a better arrangement that we the committee and the Central Bank can come to on hearings such as...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: I sent a lot of correspondence to the Central Bank. The Central Bank sent me a general response because it does not deal with individual cases. I understand that now. However, I and some of those who asked me to send the information would have hoped that the Central Bank would let us have a separate acknowledgement so that I would know the position, merely in terms of the Central Bank...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: It is merely a point about individual cases. On this International Credit Union Day, I indicate my support for the credit unions and the desire of Sparkassen to see that type of model, incorporating An Post and the post offices. It is something on which maybe we can engage with the Governor at a different time. Lastly, in terms of vulture funds and how they manage accounts, I asked the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: I will because I was so disgusted by their attitude.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: In conclusion, I ask members to consider that because the Minister for Finance is meeting the banks, we should meet the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance, maybe in an informal setting, to discuss the various meetings that we have had here with banks, individuals, etc. It would help the process. I return to the Governor's opening statement. Professor Lane read part of it into the...

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