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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: That is next.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: That is fine.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: We have to finish at 3.15 p.m. anyway. Deputy Conway Walsh, Deputy Boyd Barrett and I want to contribute.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: Yes you are. Did you have a question on this?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: They are too good for him, Minister.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: Did the Department participate in that court hearing? Did it appear as a party to the hearing? It was to and I understand that it did not. I just want to know if that is true or false.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: Can we have a note on that?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: The Minister is reading from notes there.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: Perhaps he will update the committee on it.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: I want to refer to procurement. I know that Covid was an emergency and certain procurements of properties, accommodation and so on had to be undertaken at speed. I am interested in the Minister of State's view on a look-back at what happened in that time to learn from it with regard to how property, particularly accommodation, was procured by the State. Has the Minister of State any...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: Yes. The same question would apply to the current situation with Ukrainian accommodation and international protection. The State is presumably paying many companies or individuals that are contracted to provide such accommodation. How satisfied is the Minister of State that all of the requirements laid down during the procurement process are being met?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: I want to ask the Minister of State about the private sector. It has engaged with the Department where a company or an individual has expressed an interest in providing accommodation. They go through five stages of that process for approval of the property itself. It is accepted that, generally, if they are ticking the boxes, they are expecting to be clear by the time they reach stage 5,...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: Have a look at that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: I ask the Minister of State to do that. I have emails that indicate engagement with the Department right up to the very end only for that engagement to stop suddenly. There is then a flurry of activity, with the companies trying to get back to the Department to ask whether it is taking the four units or whatever the number might be, and in a final email, they are told, "No". When I think...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: I am referring to the general system.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: Deputy Durkan may ask a short question.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: A short reply, please.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: Some members have asked for further information. I ask that the Minister and Minister of State provide it. I thank them and their officials for attending.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: I thank the Minister of State very much. I call Deputy Durkan to be followed by Deputy Tóibín.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

John McGuinness: Deputy Durkan, let the Minister of State finish.

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