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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: Thank you Ms Goggin. Deputy Doherty is first.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: The subject of this meeting is the tracker mortgage issue.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: I want to go back to Ms Goggin's opening statement in regard to a number of issues. I refer to various parts of her statement. She outlined, for example, that in regard to financial services, consumers were extremely vulnerable. She then stated that it is the view of the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, that the way in which financial institutions have treated their...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: Can I interrupt Ms Goggin? Let us measure the very fine language that would be accepted by most in the context of Ms Goggin's opening statement and what has happened. In 2009, a customer dragged a bank kicking and screaming to the courts. Since then, under enormous pressure from all sorts of individuals and groups, the banks have been exposed as not only taking money from customers from...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: We had the Central Bank witnesses before the committee. I am talking about Ms Goggin and her organisation. It appears to me from what she said earlier that the commission is doing nothing for those people who have been seeking redress since 2009. The fact that we are in this space today, in terms of what the banks are now responding to, came about by way of an entirely different pressure....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: Ms Goggin's organisation is charged with consumer protection.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: What does it do? What is Ms Goggin doing to stop this nonsense in the bank? This is still going on. Bank of Ireland produced another lot of 6,000 that were affected and it is so reluctant to tell us we still do not know today, as we go into Christmas, whether it has dealt with all the numbers in the bank. KBC Bank representatives were before us and showed such disrespect to their...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: Do we not know that they did? Was it not said they got a bonus? Is there enough hearsay at least to spark the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission into action and scratch the surface to see if an employee or employees of various banks could be unearthed to tell us the information? How else does the commission collect its information? Will it wait for people to come to it or will...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: Mr. Jonathan Sugarman went to the Central Bank and told it a story about his bank that would shock anybody. I doubt, if he had it all back again, that he would come forward as the bank that he complained about was not investigated the way it should have been. That is the experience of a whistleblower, so much more needs to be done to unearth the information required to take a case. That is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: It was not somebody at the front desk that decided about the tracker mortgage matter. That must be accepted. Somebody at the front desk did not dictate the interest rates or decide not to answer these customers or tell them there are no phone records. The person at the front desk did not decide what to do in the case of PTSB. None of these people was at the front desk. These decisions...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: Would it not be interesting to have a conversation with him?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: You do not know. You have not asked him. That is the point made by Senator Burke. If somebody is trying to gather evidence, will the witness detail the effort made to gather it? The commission has not spoken to Mr. Kissane nor, I am sure, to many more of the individual customers. I cannot go through our individual emails but they are from people who worked in banks. They express concern...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: How did you find him?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: It is worthwhile.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: You do not know if he has that information.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: You are getting paid to do your job. Why do you not ask him about it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: It is a bit late again.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: Yes. They have been happening since 2009. The process is very slow when it comes to the consumer. The witness's attitude in this is one of condemning it loudly and clearly but with very little real action to tackle banks or to support the interests of the consumer. I am really disappointed if that is the case. I have a question In relation to Ulster Bank and the global restructuring...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: Okay, let us put it this way. There were restructuring elements to each of the banks. A number of complaints are now emerging about how these banks dealt with the restructuring of good commercial loans and some bad commercial loans that were bundled together for the same individuals. There seems to be no let up or outcome to it. In that context and the current tracker issue, does that sit...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters relating to Tracker Mortgage Examination and Consumer Protection Framework: Discussion (7 Dec 2017)

John McGuinness: I just want to ask a few more questions about what has happened. In an earlier exchange Deputy Doherty was discussing decisions of the witness's office. If those decisions were made in the negative, is the witness saying that they cannot then come forward again?