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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: I acknowledge that. Mr. Morton is an expert on this matter, whereas I am not. This is his everyday job. It seemed to me, however, that it was becoming a real problem, particularly given that the service is running at about 54% capacity. We have little over half the number of ambulances and staff we need. I will turn for a moment to the recruitment targets. There are 2,161 staff at the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: We have 577 ambulances. How many do we need?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: Let us compare Ireland with Scotland, for example. I remember looking at this before and we were a long way behind in comparison. Scotland is a country that is fairly similar to Ireland. There are a lot of similarities. A few large cities and rural-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: I think the figure for vehicles is nearly double our figure. I am open to correction on that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Morton believes, however, that we may not need a large increase in the number of ambulances. That would indicate to me that we have a lot of ambulances not being used.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: What is the total number of vacant posts at the moment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: Maybe this question is one for Mr. Mulvany. What is the spend on private ambulances? I was not able to find the figure in the briefing notes. It was just over €200 million all together-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: Has that figure been increasing much?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: From a policy point of view, within the HSE, is the emphasis on having HSE ambulance services directly owned? Is that the direction of travel? Is there a move away from the private? I know that on social media there is a lot of rubbish that makes a comparison which is not like for like. Obviously, private services do not deal with critical incidents and so on, so we cannot compare like...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: I acknowledge the work of the service. The staff are more highly trained, maybe, than years gone by. Like a lot of other things, time moves on. The feedback from the public generally is very good, and the workers in the service are very dedicated. Talking to them, the one thing that always comes across, although they might complain about this, that or the other, is their dedication to...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: That area of Johnstown in County Kildare and Ballinakill.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: That is good news. Mr. Morton might keep me updated on that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: I do not expect Mr. Mulvany to have the answer to this today, but can he send me a note on vacant HSE properties in community healthcare organisation, CHO 8 in counties Laois and Offaly? What properties are vacant at the moment? Some of them might be health centres that are no longer in use, some may be houses that were bought to provide services or some may be facilities that have been...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: Some health centres have been lying empty for a while. They could not be used as a house tomorrow but they would be suitable for residential accommodation. There is one in Errill, and there are villages like that throughout the country. There are properties that could be used and converted in my own area. Mr. Mulvany might send me a note on that, including properties the HSE has bought...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay. Again, we are a long way away from where we need to be on that. On an EU comparison with many other countries, we were at approximately 50% or just above that. Capacity seems to be the issue. Is the issue the fact that we do not have the consultants?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: At start of and during the pandemic, we were facing a fairly critical situation and no one was sure where it was going to go. I know this is dependent on budgets and on direction from Government but is there a plan to reach 300 or 350 ICU beds by a given time?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: What is the target for the next five years?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: We will have 320 beds by 1 January.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: That is good to hear because I know ambulance turnaround times are tied up with capacity. We can see that from the ambulance figures. Unfortunately, the situation arises where an ambulance with a patient inside arrives at the door of the emergency department and there are no critical care beds. There are bottlenecks, which I presume this is adding to. It would be welcome if that happened...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(6 Oct 2022)

Brian Stanley: The next question on the 80:20 divide in the consultants' contract is also for Mr. McCallion. Is that working the way it should for consultants who are on those 80:20 contracts, that is, 20% of their work being carried out in the private sector and 80% in the public sector? Is that working, as a rule, throughout our public hospital system?

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