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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: There was a sub-committee that dealt with procurement, chaired by Mr. Quinn.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I would say Mr. Quinn is pretty relevant and competent. It is a pity we cannot get him to appear before any of the committees, despite requesting that he do so.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: What was the weighting given to the lowest price?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: It was 75% for having the lowest price and 25% for the quality. Does Mr. Woods know what that average is normally? It is 40%. Anything above 40% has to be questioned. We are referring to a weighting of 75% for this project. Serious questions have to be asked here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: My next question is for Mr. Breslin. As the Accounting Officer in the Department of Health, would it be normal in respect of tendering for any health projects that the weighting would be 75% based on just the cost coming in?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I thank the Chairman for his leniency and I will finish on this question. I would argue that the weighting is usually around 40% and anything above that has to attract questioning. The EU procurement guidelines are very clear. They grant the ability to question low tenders. If that had been done, it might not have ended up in the Four Courts. I refer to the power to question. I will...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I think at 14% below the average tenders coming in-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I refer to the record of the company we are dealing with for coming in with low tenders that have ended up costing this State tens of millions of euro. Mr. Breslin should look at those projects and the history. I am not going to put the details on the record here but look at the history. I refer to the Cork events centre, the Tralee bypass project and various road projects-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: Ultimately, the people responsible are the Secretary General as the Accounting Officer and the Minister for Health as the head of the Department. The buck stops with them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I am sure the auditors for BAM for the last number of years, and now doing this report, will tell us that information.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: Is that from the Exchequer.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: Can I clarify, it was €1.433 billion; there was €97 million for ICT; €52 million for the electronic record; €86 million for Children's Health Ireland for integration; €40 million for the Mater campus, which is an additional €275 million. That is Exchequer funding. Outside of that, there is €18 million to be provided by way of philanthropy....

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I will try to get through as many questions as possible because I want to come in a second time. I would like to spend the ten minutes clarifying some of the points and figures if I can. The €50 million comes out of the budget of the Department of Health. Is that correct? Another €49 million is to come out of other Departments' budgets to make up the costs. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: As such, the total reduction in capital costs between the Department of Health and other Departments to meet the overrun of the children's hospital is in fact €99 million next year. Is that correct? It is not €50 million.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I ask Mr. Breslin to clarify that, because everyone is under the impression it is €50 million-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: -----but it is actually €50 million from the Department of Health alone. The total cost next year is €99 million.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: I want to run through this and clarify some of the figures. The business case figure was €983 million. Of that, €637 million was accounted for by construction costs and €346 million was accounted for by non-construction costs. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: The costs of the construction element eventually went up to €890 million. That is an increase of 41%. The figure in the business case for non-construction costs was approximately €346 million.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: The business case figure was €983 million.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Jonathan O'Brien: The construction element of that was €637 million and then there was a saving, as Mr. Pollock said, which brought it down to about €570 million.

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