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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Healthcare Provision and Healthcare Professionals: Discussion (17 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: Would there be no requirement for specialism in mental health, for example, if there are mental health issues in the background?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Assisted Dying in Canada: Discussion (17 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: Dr. Herx mentioned the culture of silence evolving around concerns with MAID. Is this a case of establishment buy-in? Perhaps Professor Lemmens will address this point as well. Once something like this is legalised, there is an establishment buy-in such that it becomes impossible to criticise it, and maybe this is why we are not seeing close scrutiny of regulatory breaches, abuses and so on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: I welcome and thank everybody who has come here today. We can all agree that this is a profoundly difficult and challenging issue to have to discuss. For those of you who have been in real-life situations of losing loved ones, it is something that everybody must take seriously. At the same time, to use a well-worn expression, we all have skin in this game because what we do or do not do...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: One of the remarkable features of this debate, certainly in this country, is that doctors, nurses and others involved in palliative care seem to be very worried about a change in the law here. I think that is a fair statement but I will ask everybody for their view on it. We perceive those people as caring. They are cheek by jowl with the people they seek to assist at end of life and we...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: Could I refocus and maybe Mr. Curran and Mr. Ahern could speak on it? Mr. Wall refers to 100 doctors, which is a small percentage of doctors in the country, but among the palliative care people, who I think we would all assume are caring people who see the situation up close - we will find out in the fullness of time - it seems to be the case that the great preponderance of professionals who...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: It is helpful. It is just that I do not think of them as people who operate from fear or ignorance. One tends to think of them as people who are at the coalface. Is it that they see downsides for others if they change their role? Mr. Ahern mentioned prolonging life. They would probably see themselves as not being able to prolong life but helping people to live as well as possible, or to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: We might come back to that issue in the second session.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: I was involved in a report on palliative care as a member of the Council of Europe. Perhaps palliative care professionals in Belgium and the Netherlands are exceptions but in general, palliative care professionals did not see euthanasia or assisted dying as a part of the package of things we should be talking about when we talk about excellent palliative care.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: Maybe I will pick up on where Mr. Curran left off. We are all trying to do our best here. One talks about people sitting on the pot, so to speak. Mr. Curran did not mention the pot but if there is that sedentary dynamic, it is because people are afraid of the consequences of what they might open up. It is not just Ireland that has not legislated; most jurisdictions in the world have not....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: It is the model in Switzerland.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: That is agreed but his or her decision does not depend on his or her being terminally ill or anything like it. A person might have depression - and I know these are sensitive issues to talk about - but be 100% in charge of his or her own mind.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: Not as a right. This is the problem. We still-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: We still say in our society that that suicide is always a tragedy and never to be encouraged.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: So it is not a legal right. It is something we do not prosecute but I do not think any of us would want the message going out from us as members to suggest that it is a right.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: I do not believe that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: I do not believe the word "right" has ever been used regarding suicide in Ireland.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: We might return to that at another time because we did go through this with our legal and constitutional people as well. If there is that reality that vulnerable other people will end up feeling pressurised into taking their lives be it as a direct result of an unsympathetic family or an unsympathetic State in the future that does not want to fund advanced healthcare necessities or as the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: That is the core question. Is it about more than individual choice if other people are affected because we will not get the perfect society and the perfect well-funded and compassionate healthcare system? Not a day goes by in here where the inadequacies of the healthcare system are exposed. It is not just an Irish problem and that will continue so in that context, the question is whether...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: If Mr. Curran was told that given the inadequacies of our healthcare system, a change in the law in this area would have the effect of funnelling more people towards that aspiration to have their lives ended, would it trouble him?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Assisted Dying: Ethics of End-of-Life Care: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Oct 2023)

Rónán Mullen: It is our job to figure out those what-ifs.

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