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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: It is a difficult issue for all of us. We all want to do what is best, but I do not think we can separate social protection from the underlying policy. If we just go by numbers and forget about the policy and the implications for people, that is tricky territory and one might be disappointed with the answer one receives. The officials will take note of any suggestion or recommendation made...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Politics.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: As a prompt to Deputy Ryan, I ask him if there are particular areas members would select as being significant for me and my officials to pick. He does not have to answer now as it would be better for members to discuss it collectively among themselves. We are not going to be able to address every area immediately but one could imagine that, over a three- to five-year cycle, we could cover...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Going back to Deputy Ó Snodaigh's point, we have to bear in mind that the REV will be out in December so the process has sped up a lot. Following the discussions by members they should select something they consider important and significant. They can discuss their selection with officials or with me but they will have to select one area, for example pensions or illness, or the case of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: The Deputy said it could be capped at a certain level, will he explain what idea he has in that regard?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Did the Deputy say IBEC?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: The Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, has been speaking about looking at issues around the self-employed in the context of the budget. In fairness, I will certainly be having some conversations with him around this. We have discussed this issue on many occasions. It is crazy that self-employed people would not welcome a proposal to have a fairly cheap form of essential insurance...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Can the Deputy expand a little on that point?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: I share the concerns of Deputy Butler about the importance of social insurance for the self-employed and we have had some excellent reports on the subject. It would be helpful, however, if some of the small firms organisations would indicate their position because, until very recently, they have indicated a lot of opposition as opposed to support. The Deputy has been very helpful in having...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Yes. On page 4, the total expenditure on the 2015 review is €19.378 billion, which is a decrease of €226 million, as Deputy Ó Snodaigh has pointed out. One has to understand the people underlying the statistics. I will comment on another point raised by Deputy Ó Snodaigh. When the country went into meltdown, 330,000 jobs were lost and many of those people ended...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Did she have a widow’s pension if her husband died?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Our problem, to be honest, is the balance between employers, many of whom would like people to work for an hour or two a day and the Department of Social Protection to pay the balance. We are putting a lot of money-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: I appreciate what the Deputy is saying. When the collapse happened we focused, and still do to a certain extent, on people who are unemployed because that is the imperative. I acknowledge what the Deputy is saying and as time goes by we should be able to deal with some of those people. In the jobless households there is also an issue, which the Deputy would be familiar with. The key...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: That is perhaps a social issue which we have to negotiate. Maybe the committee could make a recommendation to us that would be helpful in that respect but it does have to be negotiated. To come back to the issue of the €220 million we have saved, there is a broader issue that I referred to in my statement. The demographics mean we have more children, which is great but that means...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Yes, before the budget. In respect of class K contributions, I suggest that the committee might decide to commission one or more of the members to produce a report on it and if it can arrive at a recommendation, make it available. It could be done in a relatively short period of time and might be something that we could revisit during the debate on social welfare legislation. Equally, it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Perhaps the Senator can discuss it with the committee. We have received a lot of representations about it in the terms outlined by the Senator and it is an issue. If the committee does some work on it and could get all-party agreement on it, I would certainly be able to address it. It must also go to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform but the Senator is aware of that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: It could be sent to the Department of Finance because, ultimately, it is a matter for the Minister for Finance. I think it was the late Brian Lenihan who introduced it in late 2010.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection: Estimates for Public Services 2015 - Vote 37: Minister for Social Protection (22 Sep 2015)

Joan Burton: Could the Senator elaborate?