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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Okay. Commercial peat extraction operated with a licence, but without an EIA.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: That was the case up until 2011. Am I correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Okay. Until that point is it fair to say that commercial peat extractors were operating in line with the position of the Department and in line-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Is Mr. Carberry saying that all of the other peat extraction that took place did so illegally?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I do not want to dance on the head of a pin. What does that mean?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Who was responsible for monitoring and enforcing the EIA directive in that instance?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: The EPA.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: The EPA was not doing its job, obviously.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: We are fairly straightforward in saying that the sector was not doing something. Why are we afraid to say that the EPA was not doing its job?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Is it fair enough to say that not all Bord Na Móna lands where peat extraction took place had licences?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Okay. Let us fast forward to 2018. If I understand the position, there was an 18-month derogation or time provided for regularisation. Is that a fair way of putting it? That was the subject of the 2019 Simons judgment. Would that be correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: To go back to 2012, An Bord Pleanála approved licences in 2012.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: This was a regulation that was brought forward within the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: This is helpful. On that judgment, who was the judgment against?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Not the sector.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: It is hard to blame the sector for a judgment that was issued against the Departments.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Okay. Prior to 2019, the Departments came together and tried to find a solution. I give credit where it is due. That solution met the court system and the court system essentially said what it did. Is it fair to say that the Department said then, or at least now, that it is not its problem anymore and stopped trying to find legal or other solutions to these matters?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Mr. Nugent mentioned earlier that part of the short-term solution will likely involve importation of peat. Does he accept in the first instance that provides no environmental benefit? As far as mother earth is concerned, whether the peat is extracted in Roscommon or Leitrim or in The Netherlands or Lithuania makes little difference.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I am only asking if Mr. Nugent would accept that premise that there is no environmental benefit from that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Is Mr. Nugent saying it might be more environmentally beneficial to import?

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