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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: There are two issues. First, without prejudice, what he said here was inaccurate. It may have been inaccurate because he just could not remember. My question about the letter is that it is written almost as if the SCA agrees with it. Is the SCA 100% in agreement with this letter?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: The first action is to write to the SCA.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: They met.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: It is signed by Mr. John Connaghan so we need-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: We should write to the agency referring to the letter and ask it if it concurs 100% with it or does it now need to make further clarifications or anything like that. That is the first issue.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: The second issue is that we are dealing with the biggest health crisis in decades. In this situation we all know the issues relating to management in CervicalCheck and confidence and so on. The programme manager came in here and gave us information which we now know to be inaccurate. In that scenario, we have to question having confidence in a management team that appears before the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I have a suggestion. Obviously, we have agreed to write the letter. We are back here in two weeks so for an hour at the beginning we should bring in representatives of the State Claims Agency. May I make a suggestion?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: There are three people mentioned as witnesses or as having been part of the conference call. The three should be brought in. The head of the State Claims Agency, as well as Mr. Connaghan, Mr. Gleeson and Ms O'Keeffe, who is over Mr. Gleeson, should be brought in. For one hour, let us get to the bottom of what is going on here.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Let us thrash that out. They can refuse to come in-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Let us be realistic. It will probably take two hours.

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I thank the witnesses for coming in. We are quite familiar with one another at this stage. The game of cat and mouse will continue today. I said that as a joke; it is not serious. Perhaps it is half serious. Five weeks ago, we went through all this in the justice committee. I asked a range of questions which Mr. Nugent came back to me on late last night. I have the answers on my...

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: This was Accenture.

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: How does Mr. Ó Cualáin explain the lack of tendering for such vast sums of money? I will ask him again who was at fault because I have not heard of anyone being at fault. Perhaps it is the Government but will Mr. Ó Cualáin just say who? There has to be a reason it happened. What sanctions, if any, have been taken? They are the same questions. There has been no answer.

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I have heard it before. I was at the justice committee meeting for four hours and I have read the transcript. I do not need it repeated. I would like to know from the acting Commissioner why it was not tendered, who was at fault and what sanctions there have been. If "nobody" is the answer Mr. Ó Cualáin should just say so.

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: My background is I was an IT manager before I had the foolishness to enter politics. There is a single point of failure, which is Accenture. It has knowledge of a system that has been built for An Garda Síochána, which means the Garda cannot get rid of Accenture. Mr. Ó Cualáin's organisation has managed to develop that situation where there is a dependency. I know it...

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Can I ask for specific information? There are 41 contracts with Accenture. Can Mr. Ó Cualáin provide me with the dates and amounts of the contracts and who in the organisation at the highest level signed off on each contract? If the witnesses could provide it in a spreadsheet, that would be helpful.

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I do not want it now, in fairness. My next question is for Mr. Kelly. In the context of the report, was Mr. Kelly astonished by the lack of a paper trail here?

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I will quote from the report, which says that there was "no paper trail".

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I did not write down the page number. I took notes but Mr. Kelly did say that there was no paper trail.

Public Accounts Committee: Garda Internal Audit Report on ICT Directorate Payments Process (31 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Obviously, the rolling out of the contracts was wrong and should not have happened. What justification did Mr. Kelly find for that? Surely there must be a paper trail in the form of feedback forms, independent reviews, independent analyses or some such. There must be some logic that is substantiated by a paper trail to justify it.

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