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Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Surely those are at least the minimum everywhere.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I accept that.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: We were told that it was €1,800 in 2015. The witnesses might find my next question to be a weird one, but I am thinking of the youngsters on the buses. What is the longest single trip and what is the most time a student must spend on a bus? What is the longest route?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Some routes are short.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: We are all showing our age. Deputy Aylward mentioned his time on school buses. When I was on a school bus, I had to be dropped off at school at 8.15 a.m. because the same bus had to do another run.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Department must know the maximum times.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Will the Department send us the maximum times and distances individually? It has guidelines. In the interests of safety, a child cannot be on a bus for an hour and a quarter in the morning and the same in the evening. Maybe it does happen.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: The health and safety of students are factors and that is a long time. The average cost per pupil was approximately €1,800. What is the average cost for children with special educational needs? It must be a multiple of the other figure, given that there must be escorts, drivers, specific routes from door to school and so on. What is that average?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I see that. Page 12 of the briefing note supplied to us mentions "STG". What does that mean?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: In 2017, that amounted to €2.754 million, escorts cost €25.371 million and the special educational needs contractors cost €63.668 million. That comes to more than €90 million for the 12,000 students, which is well over €7,000. All of those children with special needs must get to school, but where does the Department draw the line between offering the grant...

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Dolan just said the grant is offered. What are the minimum and maximum levels of grant? I thought those figures would be known.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: When I looked at the figure of €8,000 I was surprised to hear the individual grant is less than half of that. It has led to the situation where even when long distances are involved some parents feel the grant is not sufficient. If it is in the region of €3,000 but the Department is paying €8,000 for somebody to go with a contractor on a bus, I can understand the reason...

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: That is a lovely answer. Mr. Dolan can send me the figure later.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Do many parents get offered a grant but do not take it up?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: And it is not a high figure relative to the cost involved. One has to drop a child to school, come home and then go back a few hours later. Four journeys are involved.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I know that.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am only looking for averages.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: Based on the figures I have seen, it is nearly €90 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: What per cent of the students are covered?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 98: Provision of School Transport (13 Dec 2018)

Seán Fleming: We all understand the situation. We want to get the children to school. Escorts must also be provided.