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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We are supposed to look at not just the allocation of funding, but also the outcomes on this committee. Could the Minister talk to us about that review? They outlined their concerns about how this was working. I understand that they made recommendations to the Minister. He has said that he would review this. It is now under the Department of Health. When did that review start?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The first formal meeting of the review, therefore, took place yesterday. This is nine months after the board members indicated to the Minister that they were dissatisfied, that this was not working and that they were frustrated with the progress. Given that they saw nothing happen in March, April, May, June, July, August, September or October, they resigned en masse.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Hand on heart, given the fact that there is no board of appeal here, there are people with disabilities who would like to make an appeal but who cannot. The fact is that the entire board, including the chairperson, has resigned. This is not often seen. Therefore, does the Minister believe that he could have initiated that review any earlier, from what happened in March to its first formal...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. What happened to that review?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: What steps has the Minister taken to initiate that review? Will he release all the documentation to this committee, so that we can independently verify that he actually acted to initiate this review? It is hard to believe that a board is telling the Minister that there are serious frustrations with this, the Minister promises a review and it does not happen until 13 months later. It does...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: When?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is the Minister suggesting that it is Department of Health that was the block on the review? There are people who have disabilities out there who cannot get the support that they are entitled to. Families went to the Supreme Court to ensure that they are entitled to this. They cannot get the support. This is hugely important, as I am sure the Minister understands, for the independence and...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is it the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, who we need to bring in here? Is it his fault that this did not happen? The Minister for Finance is saying that actions he took were to raise it with the Department of Health.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: When will the board be populated? When are we likely to have the board up and running again? When will people be able to make an appeal to that board? I ask the Minister that all of the documentation on this, including the establishment of the review during the period of 2021, be furnished this committee.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Under Vote 7 in the Estimates, there is a figure for communication and marketing expenses. It has increased from €5,000 last year to €309,000. What is the cause for the jump in that funding under this head? What, and who, is it to be spent on?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Under Vote 7-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: No. We are looking at numbers here. This is administration under Vote 7 on communication and marketing expenses. The total allocation for the 2022 estimate is €309,000 compared to last year's total of €5,000.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Why is that not reflected in the Estimates that are being provided to us? The total under that subhead is €5,000.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Under administration subhead 7, communication and marketing expenses, we have €5,000 current expenditure in 2021. It is zero for capital and €5,000 in total. For 2022, the line continues to €309,000 for current and zero for capital giving a total of €309,000.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: This is the actual Vote and not any notes or briefing materials. This is the actual Vote the committee is considering.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: For clarity, is the Minister looking at page 7, office of the Minister for Finance, which relates to the actual Vote on the official document we are considering? I am concerned that if there is a discrepancy in this number, the committee may have different versions of this Vote from the Minister's.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It is subhead 7 under administration.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I could get well used to it and, hopefully, any members of the public who are looking on might think so as well. Hopefully, we can proceed on the basis that the committee has the correct figure. There is obviously a discrepancy, but we will proceed on the basis that these are the correct Estimates and they have not been altered. The question is what that expenditure related to. What, and...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. This is the core question. If we have the correct estimate, it has gone from €5,000 to €309,000. The question, which is very relevant, is why there has been such a jump in one year in the marketing expenses of the Department.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(26 Jan 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I have one other question because my time is almost up. As a matter of good practice, if there is a change in the subheads when documentation is presented to the Minister comparing year-on-year, that should be outlined to the committee. My last question in on the Revised Estimates notes for Vote 7. This relates to the asterisk for administration that is on the same page I referred to....

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