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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: How many entities were in the global restructuring group, GRG?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: Approximately 2,000.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: As I remember from the last meeting, approximately 5% remained on Ulster Bank's books in the long term. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: Was it purely related to Great Britain?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: Approximately 2,000 accounts of various sizes were transferred to the GRG. They were mainly commercial accounts which included commercial businesses that might have started to speculate on property in addition to their main business. What proportion is the 2,000 of the overall number? Some 1 million accounts were mentioned, but they include deposit, retail and credit cards accounts and so...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: Many loans were obviously performing. Were there 30,000 loans in total, of which 7,000 were not performing?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: There were 60,000 business customers-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: They obviously varied hugely in size, from relatively small high street shops to large property speculators and so on. Of the 60,000 loans, 7,000 were non-performing. Of those 7,000, 2,000 were moved to the GRG. Of those 2,000, 95% did not remain with Ulster Bank. Perhaps the delegates know at this stage what happened to the 95% that did not remain with Ulster Bank when they were moved to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: Ulster Bank sold 2,000 of 7,000 loans.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: Customers communicate with us. I have other examples of people with tracker mortgages and related issues which we have covered comprehensively. Customers have communicated with us about the GRG and said their customer agent, liaison officer or whatever one wishes to call that person was not the person they thought they would be. Will the delegates outline, from their perspective, the level...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: May any of the 95% of the 2,000 people who were affected by Global Restructuring Group, GRG, still go to the appeals process?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: I thank you for that information.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: When I asked Mr. Blair about being a director, he definitely said he was not a shareholder. I think he also said he did not think he was a director, but he did not say he definitely was not. That is my recollection. He definitely said, however, that he was not a director of the RBS Group. It would be fair to contend that he is or at least was definitely a shareholder.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: I accept that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: Two companies were involved. The answer was along the lines of "I am not a director of one and I am not a shareholder in the other." The corollary is that Mr. Blair was, in fact, a director of one and a shareholder in the other.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: That may not have come out in Mr. Blair's contribution, but that is my recollection. The transcript may clarify the matter.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: West Register probably does not have shares. It is probably owned by the RBS Group.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: Mr. Blair contends that the purpose of the GRG was to make businesses viable. The fact that only 5% of the 2,000 loans remained with the group suggests to me the GRG was an abject failure in that regard. If it was set up to try to make businesses viable and keep things going, it is clear that it did not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: It just sounds like the premise was to set up the GRG in order to retain customers. It is my contention that it was not a great success, given that only 5% remained with the group in the long term. I accept that some of the companies involved might have survived under different ownership, but we cannot know if that would have been the case. My final question concerns the 1,000 or so...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Sector in Ireland (Resumed): Ulster Bank (5 Oct 2017)

Gerry Horkan: I am sorry to cut across Mr. Stanley, but, presumably, the bank can identify all of them. Mr. Stanley mentioned "those we can identify," but the bank has identified 1,000 accounts.