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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Okay, but there is a fundamental-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I will speak for myself on this. I am not in any way convinced by the explanation given about the €130 million. It sounds exactly like the explanation the witnesses' colleagues gave for the savings. I doubt the figure will be achieved because the assurances the Department is getting that the figure will be achieved are coming from the same place that gave assurances that the project...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Another board, and just when there were not enough boards already. This strikes me as odd. A reference was made to a table in a document that we were given last week. It relates to construction cost drivers and was to give the speaker the opportunity to explain some of those drivers. No. 3, to which Ms Conroy also referred to, relates to €664 million prior to design development...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: We are certainly seeing that. That the design omissions point appears twice gives me pause for thought. As Mr. Pollock mentioned, we are discussing very large sums of money, but is he satisfied that providing more money for design omissions is normal for a construction project? Is there no penalty for the person responsible for the design omissions? Presumably, one could use terms such as...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Did the team have collective responsibility for the design omissions?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: The amount involved is €41 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: The amount is €41 million. It appears twice. The increase in cost was €21 million under No. 3. Under omissions in design, there is a figure of €20 million - a 3% increase on €664 million - and €21 million plus €20 million equals €41 million. Mr. Pollock can see how it all adds up. I referred to what I called a hands-off approach to keeping...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Nothing I have heard has changed my mind.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: That is obvious to me, so it is shocking that it was not obvious to the people in question before now. Design omissions appear twice, and the sum total is €41 million, not €20 million. Is anyone responsible? Mr. Pollock referred to the board team tendering, so no one person was responsible. However, someone is racking up these bills and we know who will be paying them....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I am aware of that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: My question relates to something else. Does Mr. Desmond envisage that there will be a knock-on effect from the massive cost overruns, which are only going to get bigger, let us be frank, before this project is over? Maybe they will not get bigger and whoever is in charge of ensuring that will get a promotion, but there will be knock-on consequences. Does Mr. Desmond believe that they will...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I do.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: It might not be appropriate to this meeting.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Perhaps it could be emailed to me, as it is causing people concern.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Mr. Desmond will understand that this project is part of one of the Department's processes. If I were in Monaghan, Youghal or somewhere else watching these proceedings, I would not be filled with confidence. However, I am sure those people want to hear from the HSE if their projects have been shelved or whatever other term it will use for that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: We will get a full update.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: We look forward to that. The final paragraph on page 4 of the submission of the Department of Health states that the health capital allocation for 2019 is €567 million. The Revised Estimates from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform indicate a figure of €667 million. This underlines why the Secretary General of that Department should be present. Is that a typo?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I understood that the budget for ICT was €300 million, of which €150 million was to be allocated for ICT and €150 million for staffing and other issues.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Is that part of the €300 million to which Ms Hardiman referred in terms of the ICT budget? This is the point I wished to make earlier, although I appreciate Deputy Brassil had been waiting for quite some time. My understanding is that the €300 million represents a block of money the spending of which has not yet commenced. The spending will not begin until the hospital is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (23 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: In regard to the €300 million that was referred to by Ms Eilísh Hardiman------

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