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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will ask Ms McCaffrey to send that information on to us.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: My concern is very straightforward. I take it that the nurses cannot write a prescription and that it has to be done by a doctor. If we have 9,000 prisoners, several thousand would certainly require a prescription while in prison. In my opinion having only four doctors available in the system - and I know the service also employs locums-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: In which four prisons are those doctors?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Culliton gets the point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Some of those bigger complexes have up to 1,000 prisoners and there is only one doctor, plus the locum. The prisoners would be lucky to see the same doctor twice if they were in for a year if locums are coming and going and there is only one doctor. I am just looking at the health of the prisoners and that is where I am coming from. I do not know the answer, I am not a doctor, but on the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Ms McCaffrey might come back to us on the issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The prison service is in existence as long as the State. Why have we waited until now to look at this? I am not blaming Ms McCaffrey.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That should have been up and running the whole time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Who says that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is like a GP service saying it runs a wonderful service in a town and its local health centre runs a wonderful service. How about asking the patients and users? Would they agree with what Ms McCaffrey is saying?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The most important people in that review are the prisoners, the recipients of the service. It is like a health centre with the doctors talking to other doctors and then talking to the officials. The Prison Service has to talk to the patient and every doctor will say that. That report is fundamentally flawed before it starts if the prisoners who often require the service are not a major...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is good, and I am delighted to hear the Prison Service has the new post of clinical lead. Ms McCaffrey will come back and tell me how many prisoners are on prescription medications.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I would say the doctor who comes in is a locum who is quickly signing certs every time. I get that feeling from the volume of people he or she might have to see in one day. I want to make sure there is good service there. Is education all done through the education and training boards, ETBs?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is funded by them and they provide the staff. The Prison Service probably has some service level agreement. How does it work for each location with its own ETB?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That funding is smallish.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I was concerned, as Deputy O'Brien mentioned, at the level of engagement by prisoners with the education and training service. Ms McCaffrey mentioned something about staffing restrictions. I presume those are the Prison Service's staffing restrictions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Could it happen that an ETB teacher arrives on a Monday to do his or her usual class and, because of the prison staffing requirements, that teacher has to sit there and twiddle his or her thumbs and the prisoners are left in the prison?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Ms McCaffrey will appreciate, at this hour of the evening, that I am going as quickly as I can. Do prisoners of basic, standard or enhanced status all have equal access to education or does it depend on where they are? How equal is access to education throughout the Prison Service and for the three categories of prisoners? Does a prisoner with enhanced status get greater access?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: It does not impact on education. That is fine. Ms McCaffrey mentioned sick leave in her opening statement. Is she able to send us the details on sick leave? I think the witnesses mentioned about 15 days. Will the witnesses send that to us on a location by location basis?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 21 - Prisons
(17 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: What way can it be done? Can that be sent on in writing because the witnesses might not have it in front of them there? Here is an awkward question. Ms McCaffrey mentioned people who are wrongfully detained. How many prisoners are released straight into homelessness the minute they walk out? Ms McCaffrey's predecessor mentioned at this committee that some prisoners have passed their...

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