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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I have a brief question for the chairman of the beef task force on the feedlot beef that I reference. To maintain our image as a green producer of food, would it be useful for the sector were feedlot beef to be labelled as such?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Okay, I will take that as a "No". A defining question then is whether Mr. Dowling considers the beef industry to operate with cartel-like behaviour.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I am coming to it in a minute.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Yes, I see that. The difficulty is, and the hope would have been, that a beef task force might have taken on that job because it is simply impossible for a farmer or group of farmers to prove what is apparent to many. Having read the Grant Thornton reports and the CCPC responses of last year that will probably be reiterated to Mr. Dowling, has anybody given him an easy to understand...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Why then will the task force have the CCPC before it in a webinar format?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: It is to discuss the issue of pricing or allegations of price-fixing.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: There are clearly members of the task force who have the same view as I have of that body's potential to deliver some transparency.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Having read the CCPC responses to the allegations that were made previously, and given it did not actually engage with MII before it published its findings, does Mr. Dowling consider the CCPC to be up to the role it has in investigating these matters?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I have a final point and I will come back in at the end if there is time. Having gone through the number of hearings and engagements he has, does Mr. Dowling see a role for an independent beef regulator? If so what additional powers should it have above the existing statutory bodies?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I thank Mr. Dowling for his answers.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I want to go back to the 30-month and four movement rules. The task force is essentially putting its hands up and saying that nothing can be done and that these rules are in place. The penalties, as I would describe them because I do not believe they are bonuses, will continue to be in place. Is that a fair reflection of the task force's position?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I am not sure how anything Mr. Dowling said contradicts the statement I made.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I said that Mr. Dowling said that nothing can be done about it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: It is important to clarify. Mr. Dowling mentioned the market and in a number of instances talked about consumers or customers. He is talking about retailers in this instance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: They buy it to sell on to the next person, who is the actual consumer. Therefore, I think it would be useful to know whether Mr. Dowling has carried out any analysis of whether any of the group that he has just mentioned has labelling systems in place for the end customer that indicate the age or number of movements that the cattle and beef in question went through when they were back home...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Does it strike Mr. Dowling as strange that a retailer would be so specific about what it needs to sell a product but would not feel a need to provide that specification to the end customer?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: There is another reason retailers and processors like it, which is that it allows them to exert more control over the primary producer. In terms of the product, there is a primary producer and the end customer but the people in the middle, whom, I suspect, are making the vast of the profits being made on beef, happen to have a set of specs that allow them to, in many cases, manipulate the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: To return to the establishment of the beef task force, we all recall the protests at factory gates. I am sure Mr. Dowling will accept that the primary cause of the agitation, which led to the establishment of the beef task force, was price.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Mr. Dowling's evidence to the committee is that matters pertaining to price are outside of the scope of the beef task force.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Beef Task Force: Discussion (6 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: In terms of the remit, the problem from my point of view is that we have beef prices that are potentially manageable if they remain stable. I have heard nothing today which suggests that we are moving to a point where we can prevent the type of major price fluctuations we have seen in the past. In reality, this means that many primary producers will have to endure periods of poverty because...