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Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: Again, we all want the maximum transparency and-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: It does not but this is the case. The legal advice is clear.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: Absolutely, yes. So, as I have said, it is not-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: That is why I have asked, going forward, and I said it in public and at that meeting, that with this sort of confidentiality clause being the norm rather than the exception, and with it being stated in the code of governance for these State bodies that it should be exception rather than the norm, that is why I have asked for that going forward.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: Yes, but employment rights are employment rights, and we have very strong laws governing employees.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: It is the same whether it is the public sector or the private sector. We all wanted maximum transparency but the legal advice is clear.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: That is why I have said that capping any such confidentiality agreements need to be considered, if they need to take place, but they should absolutely be the exception.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: Employment rights are so strong in this country to protect employees, and they are the same whether you are in public or private.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: Absolutely. That is why I have asked him, and he has agreed, to give serious consideration to how these are being used. I said it must be the exception rather than the norm.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: Unfortunately, the legal advice is clear and I am bound by that just as much as you are, or any person in the public. The legal advice is clear. Of course, that is absolutely frustrating, and I definitely get the frustration, hurt and anxiety of the staff.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: That is why I have said, going forward, that it needs to be given serious consideration as one of the reforms we need to see.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: Again, the former director general is answerable for that decision.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: I will get that information to you.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: The terms of reference were never sent in the way they should have been sent, which would be a direct email to me clearly stating these were the new terms of reference, as was sent to me on 5 September-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: It was received along with 19 other documents.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: I received them two months after the agreement with Richard Collins. That is exactly why we were querying it last week.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: It was not even clear in how they were sent, and the cover letter - I had it earlier - did not refer to the terms of reference being in those 19 documents. That is another weakness in how communication was done.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: It was in an RTÉ code of practices checklist. The email referred to a new folder being shared containing a sheet responding to the questions, and 19 further attachments cross-referenced in the document, with apologies for the delay. However, there was nothing with regard to flagging that these were the new terms of reference that have now come into effect, or when they came into...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: The point is that they were never communicated properly to me. That is why I asked these questions last week. They sent it two months after, in a document-type dump regarding a code of practice checklist that we were seeking. That is a problem if new reforms are not communicated formally to the Minister. What was done on 5 September was the correct way of doing things regarding the...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Catherine Martin: I saw the reports saying that it was explicitly told to the officials, and then read that it was in a PAC meeting of many hours. Indeed, the Deputy who asked the question did see any significance to it. It was not reported on at the time.

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