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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: That is another matter.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: That is accepted. Will Mr. McKeon come to the specific question about CE supervisors? I had intended to raise this. There is an argument over who should fund the scheme and I would agree with him on that in the context of meals and wheels and so on. Typically, they could be graveyard committees or sports clubs that have staff in various places. The estimation is that it is reflected...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Let us try to fix it and accelerate the solution to it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Are the cases actively pursued as soon as they are settled?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I have a couple of questions. On the categorisation of workers, out of the 90 investigated in 2021, there was a 44% level of miscalculation. I understand that those investigations are not blanket but are targeted. The point is that where the Department conducts targeted investigations, the level of miscalculation is quite high. Presumably, they are classified as self-employed, where it...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. Briefly, I want to raise the issue of community welfare officers-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I wish to just mention briefly in that context that I read the Comptroller and Attorney General’s chapter and I read Mr. McKeon’s response. On targeted versus random, I see targeted as having a benefit, but I also see random as having some benefit. I would like to see the Department perhaps not ruling it out completely.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I understand.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: In relation to the special investigation unit, on the categorisation of workers, whether it is bogus self-employment, self-employed in reality or employees, Mr. McKeon mentioned he has 12 staff but he needs 20. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: When does McKeon hope to have it up to 20?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: By the end of next year. Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I understand that. However, it is obviously important that is done because it has brought benefits already. On the supplementary welfare allowance, generally that is taken to mean payments, such as special needs payments, we sent out before the cost of living issues kicked in. There are then urgent need payments and the additional needs payments. There is sometimes what is termed an...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Is that an Intreo office?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: It is not a full one. The staff there are brilliant. They are my next-door neighbours and they are very good. They are super-efficient. However, there is a problem in relation to that outreach and the absence of face-to-face meetings. Sometimes the people who are applying need help filling out the forms. They are very straightforward forms. However, there is a problem in terms of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: What locations are in County Laois?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I think Rathdowney is gone.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I am asking the Department to re-examine that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: In towns such as Mountmellick, Mountrath, Rathdowney, Graiguecullen and places like that, the service being pulled has caused a problem among the most vulnerable. If it can be done, I have no problem with it being part time and one morning a week or whatever. However, we need to reinstate that service.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: There are problems with that though. There are complaints of trying to get through and chasing lines. There is a problem with that service. People sending emails-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: That sounds like the way Ms Leonard is saying it works. What I am saying is that there are problems. Ms Leonard mentioned 93%. That means it is not working for 7%. It is not an easy system to work. Issues like no Intreo office-----

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