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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: If that is the case, I will talk fast and, hopefully, I will get the responses even faster. With regard to the unwinding of FEMPI, I do not think it is true to say everybody necessarily has some form of productivity or changed work practice associated with the unwinding of FEMPI. My understanding is that the processes by which that was monitored have been substantially dismantled. Some...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I want to ask three separate questions. One relates to the tender and the fact that, as alluded to by my colleague, it was an abnormally low tender price.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I want to get onto the legal aspect shortly. I am going to use the term "abnormally low tender price". I understand you were concerned about the potential for legal action, so I am assuming you would have sought some advice in regard to the potential for legal action, had you not gone with the lowest.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I understand that. When the lowest possible tender price was chosen, Mr. Breslin said he believed that had that not been the case, he would have found himself on the steps of the High Court.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Can I just-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Therefore, Mr. Breslin was concerned that the development board would have found themselves in the High Court.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Okay, I thank Mr. Breslin for clarifying that. Is it his opinion that the board would have sought legal advice on how likely that was? Should it have done so? Would Mr. Breslin consider that to be best practice or was the board fine just to say it had better not take the chance, just in case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Okay. When the board went to the tender process, the weightings used were 75% on price and 25% on quality. That does not really square with the emerging narrative that the children of Ireland deserve the best hospital in the world, and one would be putting a small bit more emphasis on quality if that was going to be at the absolute top of the agenda. I cannot square the statements made...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: The issue is more the 75:25 split.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I do not accept that but that is the Minister's position.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: With regard to the steering group, there were 12 meetings for which we have the minutes. The assistant secretary general, Ms Conroy, attended ten of them and Mr. Woods attended six. It is clear from what was being discussed that people were starting to get concerned. I presume Mr. Breslin would meet regularly with Ms Conroy, given they work in the same place.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Even if it is just the occasional water cooler moment, Mr. Breslin will have seen this woman on an ongoing basis. Did she not say anything to him? It is obvious from the tone of the minutes that concerns were being raised. Would she not have said anything to Mr. Breslin in this regard? She was at ten of those meetings and Mr. Woods was at six. I have two questions. Was this not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: It was just the overall quantum of the amount.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: And the Department obviously did not ask.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: The Department had some awareness that there was an issue but did not ask the extent of it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: The finalisation of the process would have happened more than a year after the first issue was raised.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I asked a question of Mr. Woods. The Chairman exercised a fair amount of leeway with other people and I have one more question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: My final question relates to the minutes of the meeting of 31 May 2018. Point 5 of page 3 stated that MOC noted concerns around the nursing intake to third level education, as the current flow will not generate the required 300 paediatric nurses in 2022. We have had discussions on this but my observation is that, even if this hospital is built, there will not be enough staff to staff it....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: If prospective staff members are not in college now, they are not going to be ready.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
Quarterly Update on Health Issues: Discussion
(6 Feb 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: Last May, the HSE was not confident that it was going to get the numbers and it is not confident now. As someone looking on, it seems that sufficient attention was not being paid to the detail. There is no additional detail on how many new nurses will be in the system, how many will be recruited, and it is the same with allied health professionals. I understand the witnesses are here to...

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