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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Will the witnesses do that this week?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I ask because there is a concern cross-subsidisation is going on. That would be deeply worrying and alarming for me as a member of this committee. That is why I want that information. I presume there is not cross-subsidisation. However, if there is-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I presume that there was tendering process for the provision of such service, and that the IMI won it.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: If it was not, I think there is an issue around procurement laws. Maybe the Department and the Higher Education Authority, HEA, should look at that. How can UCC staff be part of IMI, and how can IMI, which is a subsidiary of UCC, be used, if UCC has not tendered for the work in the first place?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Is it part of UCC?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I think Mr. Collins needs to check that this is within procurement guidelines. This is the last question on the IMI. I presume that no student fees or payments from the State are being used in any way to pay back Ulster Bank for the purchase of IMI properties, or to pay the release charges on IMI properties to AIB?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: The witness is just saying no.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Fine. Mr. Collins appreciates the time pressure. I will now address the Cork Institute of Technology, CIT. The pension paid by the student services company is obviously used by those who work there. Are there any people outside of that who have any benefit from the pension scheme? Is there anyone else in the college, on the board or anyone whatsoever outside of those directly involved...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Dr. O'Connor might check it and come back.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I have a really puzzling query here about the Munster Technological University. The query concerns costs. The HEA might want to have a look at this. A letter was written to the Committee for Public Accounts on 23 March 2018. It stated that the costs of the merger to date were a total of €571,803. Yet a letter to the committee dated 27 May stated that the costs were...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I looked at that. I do not think that adds up.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I checked that. I do not think those figures add up.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Can Mr. Conlon do so pretty quickly? It seems hilarious that two letters were written to the committee three years apart, indicating that the costs were over €752,000 three years ago, and are now €571,000. Two years have passed and the costs have decreased. Apples with apples, oranges with oranges is the argument. However, I have checked that out, and even allowing for that...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: I know. I have added those in. We have public information on those. They still do not add up. I would like this information presented in a table. The witnesses might come back to us next week. Regarding the Department, obviously its officials have great respect for the HEA and all of that. They accept that the HEA has a significant role to play. I take that as given. I wish to...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Can Mr. Beausang explain to me what the Department did when it found out about these minutes and what the HEA board had recommended?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Very well, perhaps the next witness can answer.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: We have two people here who have no standing whatsoever to answer questions.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Answer the question then.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Excuse me. Mr. Beausang is here to represent the Department. He is here to answer questions. With all due respect, he should not be here if he is not capable of answering the questions or does not have the capacity to do so. His Secretary General or somebody else should be here. With all due respect, it is actually disingenuous to the Committee of Public Accounts for the Department to...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Alan Kelly: Effectively, we may note that the Department is incapable of answering the question.

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