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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Algeo can conclude.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. Algeo. I have to-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I call Deputy Verona Murphy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: To be helpful to the Deputy, has the regulator had any discussions with representatives of the national lottery about any breaches since the breach we are discussing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I am not asking Mr. Algeo to disclose individual pieces of information. What the Deputy is trying to ascertain is since that breach, have there been other similar breaches?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: We require a "Yes" or "No" answer. The Deputy has asked a straight question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Three members of the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Deputies Carroll MacNeill and Dillon and I. It was a few weeks ago.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Does PLI pay out dividends to its shareholders every year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I believe the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan fund owns 78% of the company. I think Mr. Algeo said 88% by mistake.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: I note that. A loan was taken out from PLI's parent company at an interest rate of 9%. That was in 2014. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: When I looked at the summary of the 2018 accounts, and some material attached to them, I was puzzled as to why a loan would be taken out at a 9% interest rate in 2014. If I had wanted to, I would have been able to get a loan at 0.5% interest in 2014. Other entities would also have been able to do that if they had wanted to. Why did the board draw down a loan at a 9% interest rate? It is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Can Mr. Murphy comment on the 9% interest rate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: That is not the question I am asking. Does Mr. Algeo not find it extraordinary that an entity would take out a loan at a 9% interest rate at a time when interest rates were at rock bottom or very low? Commercial decisions have to be taken. Mr. Algeo is in the commercial world and knows how it works with the laws of economics. One must try to get the best price. Why did the company go for...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: There is a 4% loan as well.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Does Mr. Algeo find that figure for the interest rate very high or burdensome?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Does Mr. Algeo find it an extraordinary rate of interest? This is what I am trying to get to. Money could have been borrowed a lot cheaper at that time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: At that point, it would not have been appropriate given that interest rates, even on short-term loans, were not 9%. This is the point I am trying to make here. Was Mr. Murphy in the company in 2014?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Does anybody know why this was done?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 19 - Exchequer receipts from National Lottery ticket sales
(8 Dec 2022)

Brian Stanley: Can we just find out? The outworkings of this are that almost €25 million in interest was paid to related parties in 2020. Is that correct? To be exact, €24.7 million was paid in interest to related parties in that year.

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