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National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: It is very relevant. They were quite happy as well.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: In regard to this amendment, if NAMA decides in the interests of the State to divest itself of an asset at a profit, I argue it would be quite happy to do that. If an overseas investor makes a killing on the asset at a later stage when it appreciates further, so be it. We cannot crib over what NAMA should have done. Should NAMA hold on to every asset until the end of a ten-year period and...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: The gospel probably says that materialism is less important than the spiritual element, with which I would agree, but, unfortunately, we are stuck here materially-----

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: -----and we have to try to materially benefit the taxpayer. In that context-----

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: Hopefully, we will all be blessed at the end of this process, but at present the electorate are cursing successive Governments for what has happened. In terms of the motion-----

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: The Minister, Deputy Gormley, seems to possess trilocation capabilities in many instances such is the work he carries out, but I will not go into that.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I was trying to parablise to make a point, but we can talk about metaphorical and spiritual issues outside the Chamber. If a person from overseas - who is not and does not want to be an Irish citizen and is not going to be offered €1million to become an Irish citizen - wants to try to make a killing and NAMA is happy for him or her to do so, I do not see why there should be any...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I am referring to the cost of recapitalising the banks. At present, the European Central Bank, ECB, rate is 1.5%. If we were to recapitalise the banks through external borrowings rather than through the ECB, it might not be possible to obtain the relevant moneys in the first instance. If one were successful in obtaining such moneys, one would be obliged to pay a higher interest rate. That...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: That is a good point. I am all for that and will take the Deputy's point on board. Deputy Higgins spoke about abstraction, which is what we dealing in if we get into the minutiae. Section 82(5) provides a concrete counter-balance to the abstract in terms of whether economic value will increase. It states: Where NAMA determines that the long-term economic value of the property comprised in...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: Let us not be petty.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I know that.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: We would still have the loans.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: Hear, hear.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: It is an educated guess.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: It would cost him more to do that.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: An "focal ar bith" a dúirt an Teachta?

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I welcome the opportunity to comment on amendment No. 16, which encapsulates the entire debate on this matter. As indicated previously, I have an issue with regard to the question of market value. Deputy Burton believes that it might be better to temporarily nationalise the banks. That is a fair argument but I disagree with it because the cost to the State would be much higher and...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I am probably listening too much to David McWilliams.

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: In Russia in the 1990s, there were queues for food and public sector workers were not paid. That is the kind of appalling vista we must contemplate in respect of our own country. In that context and in light of the cost of recapitalising the banks for the full amount, the risks posed by nationalisation are not worth contemplating. I have a great deal of respect for David McWilliams, who has...

National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (5 Nov 2009)

Paul Gogarty: I was referring to people's practice of sticking a pin in a list of horses to decide which one to back. If one is trying to obtain a long-term economic value from this, in some ways what one is doing is similar to what will happen with NAMA.

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