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Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: My question was about when the board makes the decision. When the board has the inspector's report and it is sitting to make a decision or give a direction on planning, where are the minutes of those meetings? Are they recorded?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: I want to get this right. An Bord Pleanála has a dominant position in the whole of the planning policy arrangement and decision-making process and Mr. Walsh is telling me that it does not provide minutes to provide for a fully transparent process. On a two-year basis, it is costing the taxpayer in excess of €12 million. It is a serious thing for somebody to take judicial review...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: Does that sound like it is equitable for the taxpayer? That is what the Committee of Public Accounts is about.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: Clearly it does but, equally clearly, to the tune of €12 million, we have court decisions that state board decisions are unlawful. A court deals with law and those decisions cannot mean anything else. When a court overturns or quashes decisions of the board, there is something wrong. Has Mr. Walsh identified the problem?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: Mr. Walsh told us a few minutes ago that after 2019, when we realised legal fees were €3.5 million, fewer cases were dealt with through the process in 2020. At the same time, the board managed to increase legal fees by in excess of 50%. That is almost 50% of what the taxpayer contributes. In 2021, will we be looking at another increased figure? The scandal is getting bigger. I...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: Mr. Walsh, in his opening statement, said he had 30 years' experience. That is what I have read about him. He has been in the highest positions. He is the captain of the ship.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: Does Mr. Walsh take responsibility for this?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: At what stage will Mr. Walsh be improving upon them? How much of the taxpayers' money will it take? Is the board not comprised of the most experienced people in respect of planning in the country?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: Who would Mr. Walsh say is more senior?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: I have to say-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: Am I over time? I will make one last, brief comment. I will be coming back in. In fairness to the Judiciary and the commentary it has given about our planning policy, ministerial guidelines and their application, there certainly are questions to be answered.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: I would say that we will be coming back to that issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: I thank Mr. Walsh, who has been extremely informative and helpful in his answers. I want to go back to something Deputy Carthy raised. To be clear, is it that An Bord Pleanála does not hold minutes of meetings where the decision and direction on planning is given or is it that they are not published?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: With regard to doing cost-benefit analysis on litigation, does An Bord Pleanála look back over the minutes to see whether there is a series of judicial reviews where somebody was consenting or dissenting? Are they used?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: Okay. I am sorry but I must interrupt due to time constraints.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: I have a particular issue-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: I wrote to An Bord Pleanála last June. In his response Mr. Walsh said he was not aware of refusals quoting specific planning policy requirement, SPPR, 4. Is this correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: I have four I could share.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: I have one more point that I must put because it is fundamentally important to the public. A circular has been issued by the Minister on clarification. What direction has Mr. Walsh given to his staff? Is it fair to say we will never see the phrase "minimum density" in an inspector's report again because of the circular?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Financial Statements of An Bord Pleanála (13 May 2021)

Verona Murphy: My discussion on the floor of the Dáil took place in early June 2020. That is when I wrote to Mr. Walsh. However, the circular was only issued of late. We have lost 11 months with regard to unlawful applications of density. We probably could have saved the State a fortune. I thank Mr. Walsh.

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