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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Okay. Let us fast forward to 2018. If I understand the position, there was an 18-month derogation or time provided for regularisation. Is that a fair way of putting it? That was the subject of the 2019 Simons judgment. Would that be correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: To go back to 2012, An Bord Pleanála approved licences in 2012.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: This was a regulation that was brought forward within the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: This is helpful. On that judgment, who was the judgment against?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Not the sector.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: It is hard to blame the sector for a judgment that was issued against the Departments.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Okay. Prior to 2019, the Departments came together and tried to find a solution. I give credit where it is due. That solution met the court system and the court system essentially said what it did. Is it fair to say that the Department said then, or at least now, that it is not its problem anymore and stopped trying to find legal or other solutions to these matters?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Mr. Nugent mentioned earlier that part of the short-term solution will likely involve importation of peat. Does he accept in the first instance that provides no environmental benefit? As far as mother earth is concerned, whether the peat is extracted in Roscommon or Leitrim or in The Netherlands or Lithuania makes little difference.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I am only asking if Mr. Nugent would accept that premise that there is no environmental benefit from that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Is Mr. Nugent saying it might be more environmentally beneficial to import?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I agree entirely with the Chairman. What is more concerning is that there is not an explicit agreement that brings no environmental benefit. I was going to make a second point. Has the Department carried out an analysis of the planning and EIA regulations in those countries from which it is suggested that we would continue to import peat to see how they play against ours in terms of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I have to say-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I will finish on this because Deputy Fitzmaurice wants to come in as well. Does Mr. Nugent think any substitute consent application will be challenged?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Does Mr. Nugent not see a problem here? Mr. Nugent has said that the onus is on the sector to engage with the process that is there but there is also an acknowledgement that that process, if it is engaged with, will be challenged at significant cost. There will be a significant time delay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Absolutely. In this instance, does Mr. Nugent not accept that a substantial proportion of the challenges are being won and the problem must lie in the legislative basis on which the applications are made?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Perhaps I am not phrasing this correctly. I am saying if there are ongoing challenges on the premise of a particular type of application and if those challenges are routinely successful, does Mr. Nugent not accept that there may be a problem in the premise of the legislation as opposed to the people who are making the applications in the first place?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Does the current system recognise exceptional circumstances or how is that being addressed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: What would Mr. Carberry see as being a valid exceptional circumstance?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Impact of Peat Shortages on the Horticultural Industry: Discussion (20 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: Maybe Mr. Lucas could point out if he is satisfied that the exceptional circumstances condition can be met, or if it has ever been met to his knowledge, and I will finish there.

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions: Gender Equality (15 Jul 2021)

Matt Carthy: I thank the Minister for his response. Just as we need more young people to enter farming, we also need more women, which will make farming a more successful endeavour and ensure it makes an even more positive contribution to our society. The evidence we have seen in other sectors is that statutory bodies such as Teagasc must be obliged to ensure that women enter training and education...