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Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: What order of fines-----

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: Why Is the Minister of State saying that it has to go to the courts?

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: Not obviously, because I am making the point. What scale of fine is serious in that context?

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: I heard the Minister of State but I am going to explain why I do not believe that is the case. In the Minister of State's view, what order of fine are we talking about for a prosecution to be required,?

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: I am talking about the amount of money. What is the level of fine?

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: How much is that?

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: That is €500,000. I am genuinely interested in this. What level of fine would not require a formal prosecution?

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: There are no fines that could be issued by the board and any level of fine would have to go to a prosecution. Does the Minister of State mind me asking why? This is an issue we often have. If one considers the Residential Tenancies Board, for example, that board would certainly not issue fines of €500,000. Certainly when one is getting to that level of fine, there is an argument...

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: Absolutely. I will outline the only reason I would encourage the Minister of State to look at it. Let us go back to the discussion we had earlier about the building control amendment regulations, BCAR. The maximum fine for a breach of BCAR is €5,000. It might be €10,000 but from memory, I believe it is €5,000. That is lower than some of the upper ends of the...

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: Even though it does not neatly fit into this Stage, as both Deputies have mentioned it, I will highlight the fact that I may bring forward an amendment on Report Stage. The specific issue relating to the Heating and Plumbing Association of Ireland highlights the situation whereby contractors are required to register with two separate bodies, that is, with the RGII and with this proposed...

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: Exactly. But for other works they might have to be registered with this proposed register. It might be valuable, in advance of Report Stage, for the Minister of State to consider that matter as raised by Deputy O'Callaghan to see if it is appropriate for people to be registered with two different bodies. How do we make sure we are not putting an undue burden on people and particularly onto...

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: For that category of works yes, but one could have one contractor-----

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: This is an important point. They are exempt-----

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: Let me make it first, just to make sure that the Minister of State understands it-----

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: This is a point I have not made before. They are exempt for the purposes of the category of works that they are registered for with the RGII.

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: But they are not exempt for all other categories of works, which could include works that are connected to the works that are categorised under the RGII.

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: I agree.

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: I am not speaking for others but I believe they might agree. We are not asking for anything other than the Minister of State to look at the issue. We are not making a recommendation as to how he deals with it because we want to make sure everybody is fully registered.

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: The purpose of opposing the section is to give me an opportunity to ask the Minister of State to clarify an element of this section. Section 53 relates to the application to the High Court to confirm a decision to impose a major sanction so we are saying a major sanction is to be imposed or is recommended by the board. A person against whom that sanction has been applied does not appeal it...

Select Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Regulation of Providers of Building Works Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Mar 2022)

Eoin Ó Broin: I will make one final comment. I would hazard a guess that if this Attorney General had been in office when the Residential Tenancies Act was being drafted and passed, the same argument would have been made and it is an entirely legitimate legal argument. What the Minister of State is really saying is that it is not the severity of the fine that is the issue. Any fine would fall foul of...

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