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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I want to come in for a minute to help members to recollect that when we looked at this issue last year or the year before, we had a recommendation that the State should collate all expenditure on these companies from Enterprise Ireland, the third level institutions, the HEA, local enterprise offices and the taxpayer in general, including the European taxpayer. Mr. Robert Watt, the Secretary...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I apologise to Mr. Beausang for cutting across him but we both know what I was trying to point out.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: So we have achieved some progress.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: With regard to the earlier discussion, Dr. White said there are time records for people who were fully assigned to the project. It does not apply to staff who may devote only some of their time to the project.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Does that apply to the institute's own staff too?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I understand that but it must be possible for somebody who has a lot of responsibility to say that 10% of his or her time is allocated without having to clock in-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Obviously, it is very easy to determine in the case of those working on it full time but some people might have a myriad of other responsibilities. It should be possible to devise some basis for the apportionment of time. We believe it is necessary to do that. The point we have made-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Hence, our recommendation in an earlier report. This needs to be recorded.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: There must be a step up in that area. Paragraph 348 of the report refers to the fact that Enterprise Ireland, EI, invested €300,000 plus €500,000, which is €800,000. If one looks at the chart, one sees that EI received €4.5 million for its share. It looks as if an investment of €800,000 yielded a return of €4.5 million. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay. This committee will write to EI and ask it to outline its full investment. We want to compare the sum invested with the €4.5 million sum. The Comptroller and Auditor General is saying now that it is only part of it.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I understand that. Does Mr. McCarthy have approximate figures for the overall investment?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I would like to know what level of profit EI made for its total investment.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, but the Comptroller and Auditor General has said that it put more money in after that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: My first comment was right. EI put in €800,000 and-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: It was highly profitable.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I know that but basically, it was a good return.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The committee will write to EI to ask for a full picture of its investment, including its involvement in that work. We will await its response which we will then compare to the €4.5 million that it actually got out of it. It looks as if it was a very profitable enterprise when all is said and done.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Paragraph 410 of the report states that WIT received €520,000 for the use of its facilities and staff between 2010 and 2016. The institute also received €474,000 from third parties for the use of the FeedHenry platform. To some extent, while costs went in, if one pulls it together, that is another €1 million that WIT has received back because of its investment, over and...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes. It is easy, with hindsight. Had it charged the expenses as part of its proportion of share capital and not got paid for them, it could have made 500% profit on the costs incurred. It is easy to say, with the benefit of hindsight, particularly when one looks at how well EI did in terms of its share holding. WIT actually got paid but had it carried that and built it in as part of its...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 104 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Waterford Institute of Technology - Development and Disposal of Intellectual Property in FeedHenry (24 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is with the benefit of hindsight. I am sure the witnesses can understand the point I am making with regard to those figures. It is also important to point out that several staff members were involved in a staff incentive scheme. One of the key recommendations is that the HEA should ensure that higher education policies or award schemes take account of potential situations where the...

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