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Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: That was very clear. With the Dáil in recess it was clear to everybody that this was the case and there is no point in anybody suggesting otherwise-----

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: -----because it is flying in the face of the truth.

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: That having been said, it was an important debate. We carried out our duty as Members of this House to read, study and scrutinise the legislation as best we could. I said I was genuinely open to being persuaded but I do not believe the case the Minister made was sufficiently persuasive, particularly in regard to the core issue of the trials to be heard in the Special Criminal Court. I am a...

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: The Senator did personalise the debate. It is on the record.

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: It is not unfair.

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: Hear, hear.

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: I agree entirely with Senator Regan's comments. I see no reason Report Stage could not be ordered for tomorrow. Senator Regan is correct that this Bill has been rushed and there is no need for Members to do this as quickly as it has been suggested they must. I support Senator Regan in this regard.

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: I move amendment No. 7: In page 16, lines 29 and 30, to delete ", as part of the offender's sentence," and substitute ", by way of a civil order following conviction,". This is an attempt to change the section because it seems to be wrong conceptually to categorise a post-release order as part of a sentence. Perhaps it was badly drafted. Will the Minister provide a response which would...

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: The Minister seems to accept there is an issue in this regard as he said there is not too much between us but as Senator Bacik rightly said, the amendment was proposed in a constructive spirit. Despite what the Minister said it does not seem to sit particularly well to describe these orders as being "part of the offender's sentence". If the legislation was not being subjected to such a rush...

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: I move amendment No. 11: In page 19, lines 20 to 25, to delete all words from and including "if---" in line 20, down to and including "State." " in line 25. I am interested to hear what the Minister has to say about this amendment. The reason for this amendment is that it would appear to be permissible in international law to criminalise someone outside the State who directs the commission...

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: On the basis of what the Minister has said, I do not propose to press the amendment. Amendment, by leave, with drawn.

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: I support the amendments tabled by Senator Bacik and endorse her arguments in support of the changes she wants to make to the Bill. It is important to reflect on the fact that when we were debating the use of the Special Criminal Court and the Minister's apprehension about the intimidation of jurors, we were critical that he did not seek to employ or appear to seek to employ any other means...

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: I wish to respond to a couple of the points the Minister made. I think I understand the Minister's position a little better now. On more than one occasion in his last contribution he emphasised the importance of sending out a strong signal. He repeated that several times and he said something akin to that in the other House as well. Having looked at this legislation and having heard the...

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: Is the Minister then saying there is more available to him and to the Government than what he has communicated to us? Can he tell us what it is or give us some insight into the empirical evidence to which he refers? When he is pressed on it he talks about what the Minister for Defence said and about the Keane case. With regard to the latter case, by the way, which has been invoked over and...

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: On a point of information, where a person lives is not relevant, one way or the other, to the strength of his or her arguments.

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: I do not wish to fall out with my good colleague and namesake, Senator Mary White. However, I must state that I do not represent the constituency of Dublin South in this Chamber.

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: Earlier in the debate, reference was made to the ICCL, lawyers' letters and people being described as coming from Dublin 4, Dublin 6 or wherever. In addition, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was upset about people playing the man rather than the ball. I thought we had moved on from that. Is it not possible to discuss the issues that arise rather than trying to personalise...

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: Did those comments relate to the Special Criminal Court?

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: Then the Minister should quote them in their entirety.

Seanad: Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (14 Jul 2009)

Alex White: I do not disagree with anything said by Deputy Gilmore or Deputy Rabbitte - I am uncertain which Deputy was quoted by the Minister.

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