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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: The Minister asked me a question and my answer is-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: -----perhaps he could have engaged with the board.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: What people are interested in is how it got from the figure at the time the Taoiseach was Minister for Health to the present figure.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: We use the analogy of building a house or getting an extension. The lowest bidder was chosen. It was the lowest bid by €131 million and nobody asked how it could be delivered at that price. We only have to look at the Minister's statement to see the difference between the tender price and what was the guaranteed maximum price, which has turned out to be a slightly movable figure and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: The Minister is a member of the Government. The question the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform wants to know-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: How did it get from that to what we are at?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: When the Minister brought the figure of just under €1 billion-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: -----did he ask any questions as to how the statement made by the man who was the Taoiseach by that stage and who had been Minister for Health had escalated?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I asked a very brief question about PwC being the on-site managers for BAM and Mr. Breslin said he would answer it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: It would take two seconds.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I thank Mr. Breslin for his attendance and the opportunity to ask him another round of questions. I asked him a very simple question about the appointment of PwC but he did not have an opportunity to respond. I am not interested in how bedded in or intertwined with the process PwC is. Is it the on-site compliance manager for BAM?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: The Minister and the Secretary General, two very senior people, are before the committee. This is a fundamental issue because a company that may have a vested interest may not be the best choice to carry out the review. However, Mr. Breslin cannot say-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I would hope so, given the fee of nearly €500,000.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I am making the point that this is something about which Mr. Breslin should know. He should be able to say with confidence that either PwC are working with BAM but he has reviewed it and is happy or they are not. However, Mr. Breslin cannot answer that question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I appreciate that but I would have hoped for a definitive answer, rather than Mr. Breslin's best understanding or guess because I believe------

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: It would be preferable for Mr. Breslin to be able to answer the question now. An issue such as that is of sufficient importance for him to have checked it prior to his appearance. He did not do so; he will check and revert to the committee. That is fine. However, if I were in his position, I would consider that an important issue on which I would be able to provide a definitive answer....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I reiterate it would have been preferable for Mr. Breslin to have the answer, but he does not. I am wary about naming people as it is not always fair to do so. A person on the board is a staff member of the Office of Government Procurement, which is part of the Department of Finance. Was there a meeting between officials from the Department of Health, preferably the Minister, and this...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I know they do not have to be finalised until later in the year.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: That is fine. They will be published at that stage.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children's Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Jan 2019)

Louise O'Reilly: I understand that. I am asking if they are ready. My last question is one I asked the Minister but to which he did not get a chance to reply. The head of the board was very clear in saying that important lessons had been learned. He was not as effusive on the detail of those lessons. Has the Minister learned lessons from this process and, if so, what are they? How can we be sure this...

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