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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: I just want to drill down into this. If Mr. Carty has access to risk intelligence, presumably that forms the pricing mechanism.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: I think it is best that we make this distinction now. We are beginning to drill down into the nub of this now. If the insurance I am paying for suddenly increases by 20% or 30%, I will scratch my head. Most people will accept that historically, it might have come down for a certain demographic. Where is the loading? Mr. Carty has referred to the SFCR. If I am interpreting him correctly,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: On that-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: Before he comes in, I would like to say it appears that the data are proprietorial, in effect. It is questionable whether we can legislate to make that data available to all comers. I would welcome a view on that. If the data are of a comprehensive nature, and if they profile every single purchaser of insurance, we can crack the nut here by getting access to them. That is really what we...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: I thank Ms Dowling for coming in because I think she has given us an angle with which to question Insurance Ireland on the issue of data. I suppose what I want to ask is whether it is possible.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: If it is supposed to be a perfectly competitive market, those who want to enter the market should have access to all the information they need to do so. If there is a blocking mechanism, there is a suggestion that cartel-like behaviour could be at play. We will have an opportunity later to discuss whether that is the case. I want to get a sense from Ms Dowling and the representatives of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: We have to distinguish between Mr. Carty as an underwriter and the IBA position for the purposes of this.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: I want to come at the data issue from a different angle. Let us start at the beginning, because the CCPC has said it is going to open up an investigation into, to use Ms O'Leary's term, the issue of pricing predictions or intentions that "may result in a degree of unspoken co-ordination". What does the expression "unspoken co-ordination" mean, in layman's terms? Could the witness speak to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: What Mr. Kenny is telling me, as somebody who has just seen an increase in their own premium, in layman's terms is that this could be adjudicated or there could be concerns around cartel-like behaviour in that instance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: Mr. Kenny used the analogy of the smoke-filled rooms. If one fast-forwards to modern language, it is air-conditioned rooms in glass towers, on the 15th floor, but it is the same type of behaviour, where an influence is being brought to bear on the market in the context of pricing. Whatever way one parses the language, what Mr. Kenny is essentially telling us, on behalf of a statutory agency...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: The Chairman has raised the issue of data. We know what the Injuries Board pays out, but there is a whole indeterminable figure that we do not know in respect of settlements. We do not know the true cost of settlements because there is not perfect knowledge. If the CCPC is investigating this without having access to the three so-called databases, it could be argued - correct me if I am...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: Forgive me, I have no wish to confuse the issue. From a statutory point of view, does the commission have the power to go into any insurance house? The commission is investigating the sector, effectively. Does it have the power or remit to go in to any insurance house, any of the big names? Three of the biggest names in the world in this sector begin with the letter A. Can...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: The commission obviously does believe that. Otherwise, it would not have notified of the fact that it is undertaking an investigation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: Is that not the nub of it? We are talking about huge increases in premia. The commission has received complaints. We already know the scenarios. Let us suppose a person's car has an NCT certificate, he is over a certain age, the car is roadworthy and he has never been a risk before. Then, all of a sudden, he is paying a 50% increase in his car insurance. There is no justifiable reason...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: Can the CCPC ask that question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: From the consumer's point of view, the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission has issued summonses to the motor insurance providers. The commission press release clearly states that there was a signalling of price increases. If the commission cannot get access to the reasoning behind the price increases, even on issues like re-balancing, provisioning or the historical reduction in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: Let us not couch language here. The people watching this online want a simple answer. The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission is going in now to take a look at the insurance sector, as it relates to motorists. That will give people some degree of comfort, but it will only give them comfort if they know there is an outcome that results in a reduction in premium prices.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: What does that mean? What is the delta on the price?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: The commission can make a determination that there was an increase in price as a result of what criteria?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Rising Cost of Motor Insurance: Discussion (Resumed) (15 Sep 2016)

Seán Sherlock: In effect, there is no justice or restorative function of the commission in that regard. The commission can make a "Yes" or "No" statement.

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