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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Next are Deputies Catherine Murphy and Connolly.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Perhaps one of the board members will identify the board to the committee and tell us why they are on it?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: What is Mr. Costello's background?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. John Martin was a planner in Dublin City Council.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. Costello and apologise for interrupting Deputy Connolly.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: There are two-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: At this stage I will call Deputy O'Brien.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will give the Deputy ten minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is a PricewaterhouseCoopers review of the escalation of costs relating to the new children's hospital. Everybody has been fixated on the escalation of the costs but they are only part of the story. The overall costs are the bigger story. From the meetings of the health committee to today's meeting, bits have been added on. There are many excuses for why this happened but, as...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: With regard to the terms of reference, there is a point that is relevant concerning the major residual risks and the robustness and completeness of the current arrangements. That is the most important thing and I ask that it be reconsidered. Telling us what happened three years ago is fine but it does not protect us for the future.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am more interested in protecting the taxpayer from today on.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is important but the bigger risk for the taxpayer as of today concerns whether the amount involved stops at the €1.7 billion for which we are now on the hook or rises further. I would like more information on future-proofing the rest of the delivery under the contract. On the flow of information, it appears from what Deputy Jonathan O'Brien was saying that there were clear...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I have a simple question. How many employees are there in the board?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: It just stated that there was a budget. The Department almost indicated that because it did not know the extent of the problem overall, it decided not to mention it until it could give a figure. There should have been some indication that there was a potential problem, however. It would have been relevant given that the Oireachtas was discussing the budget on 14 October or 15 October and...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Breslin gets the point. I asked a question earlier in respect of which I need a figure. Mr. Breslin kind of skimmed over it. I want to know what will be the annual operating budget for the hospital when it is in full swing.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: How does that tally with the cost of running Temple Street in Crumlin-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Not that there is an issue. The last thing people want is these spanking new facilities not up and running. That has been the history of extensions to hospitals over the years. For the public record, what will be the cost of running the operation per year by comparison with that of running the existing children's hospital? What will the increase be? Given that everything is to be...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is only a matter of providing a headline figure because other committees, systems and processes can interrogate this. I refer to headline figures, a bit like the €1.7 billion, just to give us an understanding. To my knowledge, the NDFA has a role in advising on all major capital infrastructure projects. We were involved with it regarding the Mater Hospital site. It seems to have...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: If the NDFA has competence in that area, why was it not used to check the financial robustness of all the main contractors. Mr. Costello stated that there is some other method of doing it.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The obvious question, from having listened to Deputy O'Connell earlier, concerns whether there is a bond in place if something major happens.

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