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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The detailed design for phase B, which accounted 90% of the job, was not completed when the contract for the full project was awarded. It is very simple. It was open to a contractor to get on site to do phase A, which accounts for 10% of the job, knowing that it had landed the entire contract and that the board had no bargaining position because a detailed design had not been done. It...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will allow the Deputy to do so when I have finished speaking. No detailed design was completed for phase B, which accounts for 90% of the job - a sum of €800 million or €900 million - prior to the award of that contract. The only specific thing on which contractors could bid was the first 10% of the work, relating to underground works. Once the contractor had its foot in on...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will take the point of order.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is a point of order but I have stated------

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will finish on this. I am going through this in such detail because there have been 11 hours of debate on the matter at three Oireachtas committees. I want to put the big picture in place before people become totally confused. I will call Deputy Kelly but, first, Mr. Costello wishes to comment briefly.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am going to have to move on. The Deputy will get a second chance before the vote.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy will get a chance before the vote. There are other Deputies to come in.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy will get a second chance before the vote but I am moving on.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: We have to move on to Deputies Cassells, Cullinane, Catherine Murphy, Connolly and MacSharry. Deputy Kelly will be allowed back in.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Deputy Kelly will get back in before the vote. Everyone else wants to get in. We have been asked to stick to the time and Deputy Kelly will get a second go before the vote. Deputy Cassells has 15 minutes because other members have asked to be strict on time this morning and everyone will get back in a second time.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy has to be fair. If he has a question about the then Minister's words, there is only one person who can answer it.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I know, but-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I know that. The Deputy is referring to any Minister.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Chairman asked the witnesses a question earlier that I will ask them again. Was a successful bidder lowballing to get the job on the basis that they came in on budget for detail on phase A but were spectacularly wrong when it came to phase B? Were the witnesses had then because they had signed up to this and were then committed to a project that spiralled out of control?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: In answering the question, Mr. Breslin will not be interrupted. He will not answer at a meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts for a statement by the Minister on the floor of the Dáil. If somebody has an issue with what any Minister says on the floor of the Dáil, that is-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Secretary General is responsible for the information but the words of the Minister on the floor of the Dáil-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The words of the Minister on the floor of the Dáil are a matter to be discussed in the Chamber. The Secretary General is responsible for his actions. The Minister is not here to answer. Irrespective of the advice the Minister gets from the Department, anything he says on the floor of the Dáil is information for which he is answerable on the floor the Dáil, not at a meeting...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Breslin should be allowed to answer the questions.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am protecting the Minister, who is not present. I will protect any Minister who is not here.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I do, and he has given the Deputy the answer. Knowing the issue, the response I suggest might have been given-----

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