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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: So it was entirely the witness's idea to give all of that information.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: At the beginning of the email, the witness wrote that it "has been on my mind for a number of weeks".

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Okay. The witness is not moving off that position. That is grand. I hear what he is saying. Did Mr. Culhane know that the witness had sent this email in July?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Let us fast forward then to October. Mr. Culhane wrote to the Garda Commissioner, the deputy commissioners and the CAO. This is the letter in which the Official Secrets Act was quoted. In it, he recounted the events of 21 October when the witness, Mr. Michael Dodd and Mr. PJ Leonard were having lunch in the restaurant and were joined by Mr. John Barrett and Mr. Alan Mulligan. During...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: It is dated 24 October 2015. It is the letter that references the Official Secrets Act. So what happened? This was three months after the witness's email. He and Mr. Barrett had had contact.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: The witness had shared his view.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. McGee shared his view that things should be kept quiet, which is astonishing. However, he is willing to take that one on the chin. Did anyone else suggest it to him or did he pick it up in the atmosphere? He thought it was wise to keep it quiet.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: The witness certainly did.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Let me repeat. I do not think the witness is being frank in terms of why he wrote that. However, if that is what he is telling me, that is what he is telling me. Fast forward three months later, Mr. Barrett looked for the witness and had a meeting with him. The witness then ran back to Mr. Culhane and rehearsed for him the contents of that conversation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Somebody else told Mr. Culhane that the witness had a meeting with Mr. Barrett.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. Culhane then pulled the witness in and asked him what it was all about. The witness then told him.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: What was going on within the witness's division that that was the kind of dynamic between him and Mr. Culhane? Was he bullying the witness?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Was Mr. McGee being bullied?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Did he have an open and harmonious relationship with Mr. Culhane?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: And had?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Did the witness feel in any way on edge?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: Did he feel in any way forced to comply with all of this?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: That is kind of irrelevant. So what? The guys did not like each other. There was a tension. Big deal. I am not remotely interested in that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: There was no sense of bullying. The synopsis-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Mary Lou McDonald: So I notice.

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