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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: No, it does not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am going back. I will not let you dice around this. You should either withdraw the comment or stand over it. Ms Murdoch claims that this legislation does the same thing. The Insurance (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill hands the Central Bank of Ireland the power to collect further data. Does she acknowledge that those data have nothing to do with provision of my legislation which is about...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: That is not what Ms Murdock said.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is Ms Murdoch's position that she is going to tell me that black is white? Is she going to tell me that this Bill does exactly what my Bill does? I can read out the section. The Government's Bill, which has already gone through a number of Stages in this House, only allows for the additional collection of the taxpayers' money that was pocketed by the insurance companies in respect of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am just trying to have a-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I am just trying to get to the factual position. Honest to God, Ms Murdock is telling me that this Bill does exactly the same as my Bill, which is blatant nonsense, even though I have told her what the section is. I can read it into the record word for word. It is simply untrue, and I cannot sit here and listen to her saying, "No, you are telling me black is white." It is not true. Ms...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Let us go to that point. I acknowledge that Britain has no national claims information database. I acknowledge that four years of motor insurance data and two years of public liability insurance data have been gathered. However, the Central Bank has informed us that it cannot inform the public or us, as Oireachtas Members, of the premium reductions related to a single policy. We may, for...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Is there any way to find out? When the national claims information database, NCID, reports, is there any way of us as Oireachtas Members or, indeed, the public to be able to see awards dropped by 42% and that is the direct result with regard to premia? How do we disentangle that it is due a bit to Covid and maybe a bit of investment?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. Let us look at what happened in Britain. Many of Insurance Ireland's members are also the largest insurance companies. The seven largest insurance companies in Ireland are also the seven largest insurance companies in Britain. I refer to AXA, Allianz, Aviva, Zurich Insurance Group, RSA Insurance and those types of companies. In Britain, when the House of Commons voted through a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: If we empower the NCID to seek exactly that type of information, would Insurance Ireland be happy with that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Would Insurance Ireland welcome that oversight?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: That is why this legislation is different in one respect from the British regulations. While they require a report at the end of the fourth year, which is 2023, we will require a report annually from Insurance Ireland's members.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Does Ms Murdock believe that Insurance Ireland's members passed on euro for euro the reduction in awards as a result of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021 and the guidelines?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I will ask again. Does Ms Murdock believe that Insurance Ireland's members have passed on euro for euro the reduction in awards to their consumers?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: It made 3% profit last year. It is not loss-making.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: When they appeared before this committee and lobbied us to bring forward the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021 and, obviously, asked the Judiciary to bring forward the guidelines, Insurance Ireland's members told us that they would pass on the saving euro for euro.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Does Ms Murdock believe that? Does she stand by that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: So, Ms Murdock believes they have passed on the saving euro for euro.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Judicial Council (Amendment) Bill 2021: Discussion (4 May 2022)

Pearse Doherty: When we deal with the PIAB and the duty of care, can Ms Murdock tell me where the goalposts will be then? When is Insurance Ireland going to put the consumers first? We told the insurance companies they were talking through their hats with inflated figures in terms of fraud. Then, the awards were the big issue. Now, it is that we are not actually even seeing any reductions in public...

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