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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: But as the head of a professional body, this is part of "the culture" with which we as a committee are becoming familiar. There seems to be a culture of protecting one's predecessor at all costs and passing the buck, in effect saying that was not my pigeon hole it was somebody else's pigeon hole – with impermeable walls between pigeon holes. We are not getting any closer to the truth...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Why did the Commissioner demote Ken Ruane in spring 2016?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Why did the Commissioner demote Ken Ruane in spring 2016?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Did his reporting level gain an additional level between senior management or more senior management in the spring of 2016?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I mean in the order of things. Although his position stayed static, was there an additional level in the chain of command put in by the Commissioner in the spring of 2016?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: So the answer is "Yes".

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Does Mr. Ruane's reporting structure remain precisely the same and it was not reversed at a later date? The Commissioner might check with the deputy commissioner. Did he receive a letter from the executive director of human resources noting the organisational risks which would arise from the demotion decision being tested in court?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: So Mr. Ruane was always happy. I have just one more question and then I am finished. So Mr. Ruane did not think he was demoted or that he was diluted in terms of his influence or seniority.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Did he ever protest to that effect?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Does a letter exist to the deputy commissioner from the director of human resources noting an organisational risk which would arise from the restructuring outlined by the Commissioner? If such a letter exists could the committee have it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Could we have a copy of the letter?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Based on evidence, there is a concern here that these matters were taking place against a certain backdrop. Going back to the "cup of tea" meeting of the 4th, in inviting Mr. Barrett to the meeting it is alleged that Mr. Culhane said: "The Commissioner wants to see us. Ken has pushed the nuclear button." Does that kind of language surprise the Commissioner?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I am suggesting it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: The deputy commissioner.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: So, there was no mention of a nuclear button.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: I thank the witnesses for coming to the committee and I am sorry they were kept waiting. Will Mr. Waters tell the committee if there is an audit committee within the Department of Justice and Equality, as is the case with the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Does this committee audit transactions or issues around where the Department's Vote is distributed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: Did Mr. Waters instruct or ask that audit committee to examine any of the issues to do with the Garda College in Templemore?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

Marc MacSharry: The Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment, which is responsible to this committee also, gives money to local authorities to run themselves. There is a local authority audit committee that the Department can then assign to look at various transactions within local authorities. Is there a similar audit committee where the Department of Justice and Equality can take a...

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