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Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: I thank our witnesses for attending a gruelling three-hour meeting. It cannot be easy. I certainly would not like to be in their shoes at this point. Fair play to them for offering to come in to try to clarify many of the issues that have arisen over the past three weeks. That is commendable. That said, the Committee of Public Accounts session has posed further questions. I...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: The fact is that they were clearly raised with the description "consultancy fees". It is fair to say that I doubt anybody watching the previous session believed it when they saw that they were raised for consultancy fees, which they clearly were not for. We heard that these particular invoices were raised under CMS Marketing as opposed to NK Management, which would be usual. People are...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: Mr. Kelly knew they were described as being for consultancy fees and they were not for consultancy. That is the doubt everybody has.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: Okay, we have heard-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: Can Mr. Kelly understand why people are sceptical? Can he understand why people have concerns around the fact that "consultancy fees" was the description?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: Mr. Kelly said earlier that he was just following a process. Is he aware of any process either in corporate governance or accounting that allows for an invoice to be raised with a description it is not actually for?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: That is a serious mismatch.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: Okay. On the same issue, and I am not being facetious here, but how would Mr. Tubridy describe his profession?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: Never consultancy.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: Mr. Tubridy has never partaken in consultancy. He does not do consultancy as his profession. He is a broadcaster.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: That comes back to Mr. Kelly's part in this and the raising of the invoices. He knowingly raised the invoices with the term "consultancy fees". Mr. Tubridy knows he is not a consultant. I am sure Mr. Kelly knows that Mr. Tubridy is not providing consultancy-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: -----in any way, shape or form. What I am trying to get at here is whether Mr. Tubridy still has full trust and faith in Mr. Kelly-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: -----considering that it seems to be clear to everybody that there was some form of deception with RTÉ and Mr. Kelly using the term "consultancy fees", and also using a separate company that had never been used before. Does Mr. Tubridy still have full faith?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: Mr. Tubridy is happy that those instructions were to raise the invoices for "consultancy fees" and he just did that without asking any questions.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: However, now that Mr. Tubridy knows-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: That is not-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: -----quite the question. The way the Committee of Public Accounts meeting played out this morning over three hours is that many questions were put to Mr. Kelly about the description of the invoices as "consultancy fees" and the fact that they came from CMS Marketing, which was different to where they would usually come from. There are many doubts among the public. With Mr. Tubridy knowing...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: We heard the new director general, Mr. Kevin Bakhurst, on RTÉ radio yesterday when a question was put to him specifically with regard to Mr. Kelly. He was asked whether he would work with agents like Mr. Kelly again and was asked to give a "Yes" or "No" answer. He said he could not give a definite "Yes" or "No" but, to paraphrase, he said that in all likelihood, it is a "No". Does...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: Potentially, any future arrangement Mr. Tubridy has with RTÉ would exclude Mr. Kelly's services.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (11 Jul 2023)

Christopher O'Sullivan: But the-----

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