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Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Would that have been through the regional executive?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Obviously, the committee has highlighted the good work being done by the Peter McVerry Trust on the ground and there was an obligation on the Department to ensure it continued. The Comptroller and Auditor General, however, has made some strong points concerning the advancing of funds without, in some cases, the necessary approval from the Department of public expenditure and reform or Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Maybe I am confused. Is it correct that the total amount advanced by the executive was €5.3 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: In excess of the €2 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: There was no approval for the €2 million and the ultimate amount paid was €5.3 million.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Are we talking cash flow here?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I suppose the question we have now, and I am sure the Comptroller and Auditor General has the same question, concerns the fact that the financial situation of the Peter McVerry Trust at that point was still very uncertain. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I refer to the idea, then, of us committing more than €5 million in advance of knowing what other legacies or debts existed in the organisation. I appreciate it was a difficult situation for the Department to keep the ship moving forward, but this was a great deal of money to put into an organisation at a time when we did not know where the financial structure stood.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Consideration was never given to creating a new vehicle separate from the trust to continue the services.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Ultimately, the Government provided over €15 million in funding. Again, this all falls into the area of the funding of projects. In the reports I have read, I have not seen any evidence of misappropriation or of money going missing, which is a blunt way of putting it. Is this Mr. Doyle's assessment of it too?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I suppose the broader point is that €15 million of public money has been extended to an organisation. I ask Mr. Doyle to comment on the decision of representatives of the Peter McVerry Trust not to attend this meeting and be beside him here answering these questions. Mr. Doyle must feel like that is a little bit ungrateful when the organisation his Department took fairly significant...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: One of the things the representatives referenced was that - incidentally, they did not make this known to us in their correspondence but said it publicly - they may come before us following the publication of the trust's 2023 accounts. As pointed out previously, the 2023 accounts should have been filed long before now. Is this correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: In terms of the oversight arrangements in place, it appears to be a concern that the 2023 accounts have not yet been filed. Have the oversight arrangements identified why this is the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: The article in The Irish Times on 29 May highlighted the purchase of the hotel for €6.24 million. It also highlighted its vacancy or non-use since 2022. Given the scale of where we are, it does not feel like there was any urgency or emergency in this regard. Has the Department challenged the trust in any way on this matter?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Ultimately, it is an asset of the Peter McVerry Trust.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: How was the €6.24 million funded?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: That would have been in advance of the difficulties being-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: The Department funded the purchase of a hotel. I know from the work the Department and the DRHE do that they are really struggling to provide additional space. Notwithstanding the huge efforts I am sure are going on around the financial arrangements of the trust, it is questionable that a building would lie empty for all that time since 2022.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: That conversation and the previous ones we had highlight a governance and accountability issue here when the length of the supply line for funding is very long. There is the Department, the DRHE, the approved housing bodies and in some cases the city council has a role too. I think the relevant chapter has three recommendations. Can Mr. Doyle tell me where they stand?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: The question is how we got to a situation where, in very changing circumstances, a decision by the Department to issue €2 million resulted in the executive distributing €5.3 million. This is a fairly significant difference.

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