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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: I am suggesting that the Deputy reads paragraph 5.5.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Fire ahead.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Yes. The Deputy should read the next paragraph now.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: The bottom line is that we put it to the trade unions that we would require the FEMPI architecture to remain in place until we are in a position to afford the full restoration of pay. The paragraph states that, "The Parties", namely, all of the public sector unions, "notwithstanding the improvement in the country's fiscal position", which is acknowledged and noted, "note that ... the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Yes, for those who are not parties to the collective agreement because there is a collective agreement for pay restoration.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: The Deputy has made his position crystal clear. He would never have introduced any of these measures and would have magically found €2.2 billion-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: I would be grateful if Deputy Healy would allow me to respond to Deputy Boyd Barrett. He would have magically found €2.2 billion in the teeth of the recession when the only people giving us money were the troika which would have, of course, ponied up that sort of money. He thinks that was feasible but that just was not the case. What we are about now is, in an orderly fashion,...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: I will get to the question but I want to-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: It is very important to point out that increments are pay. It is all money. I have allocated €300 million for additional pay next year, to begin this process. That goes into the base and a further €300 million is expected in each of the following two years, incrementally building up, as Deputy Fleming pointed out, to €900 million over the three years. Next year that...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: No.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: We negotiated already in the area of pay restraint on increments. I think the Committee of Public Accounts had a look at increments as well. I went through a year of being beaten up by many in this House saying that I was giving allowances and increments and pay increases when people were suffering grievously. I did not hear Deputy Boyd Barrett lend his support at the time. Obviously,...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: I move amendment No. 15:In page 11, to delete lines 14 to 19 and substitute the following:"(4) (a)Where the application to a pensioner of subsection (2) would result in the annualised amount of his or her public service pension being lower than would be the case if he or she had been on a pension specified in subsection (1) and that subsection applied to him or her, then subsection (2)...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: This is the section Deputy Healy wants to talk about.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Pension restoration.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: The Deputy has made a number of very fair points. Originally, I had a request in the Lansdowne Road process to meet dozens of retirement associations.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: My advice was to consolidate and have one retirement voice. In fairness to them, that is what they did. I said I would meet them when that materialised, and I did so. I also told them that they could not participate because I was dealing with ICTU in the pay talks. However, I said I would ensure they were fully briefed on the progress of talks and that they would not be left out in...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: It equates to a salary of €68,000. A person on €68,000 yields a pension of €34,000. That represents a significant proportion of all pensioners. Many would not have retired with a salary in excess of €68,000. Under these provisions, they will be exempted entirely from any impact through the three incremental payments over the coming three years, starting on 1...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: It depends. I can give the details to Deputy Fleming. Different retirement dates have different impacts. Let us suppose a person retired before 1 March 2012. If that person had been on €35,000, the amount in question is €600; for a person on €40,000, the amount is €1,200; for a person on €50,000, the rate is €2,400 and the figures rise up to a...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: It is generous, obviously, because of their age, in terms of the medical card and their medical need. That is right and proper.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill 2015: Committee Stage (10 Nov 2015)

Brendan Howlin: Yes. This is something we will see as the economy improves. I am mindful of the other point Deputy Fleming made which I did not reference. There is uniqueness about people who retired in terms of longevity. That is something I will look at again, or whoever is in my position next year will look at it, I presume, in terms of the continuing recovery of the economy, to see if we can truncate...

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