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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is a clear audit opinion for St. Angela's College Sligo and for the Dublin Dental Hospital board. The latter’s accounts were prepared in accordance with the accountancy standards for the voluntary hospital sector and approved by the Minister for Health.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The next item on the agenda is the work programme. Next week we will be dealing with the Department of the Taoiseach group of Votes. I propose we have one session to deal with Vote 1, President’s Establishment, and Vote 2, Department of the Taoiseach, another session to deal with Vote 4, Central Statistics Office, and a third session to deal with Vote 3, Office of the Attorney...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: How long ago was it presented to the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I propose then that we write immediately to the Department of Education and Skills asking that the report would be published in advance of our meeting on 21 February. It would be pointless having a meeting if the report has not been issued to us.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: We did have the unsatisfactory situation the last time where financial accounts for some third level institutions were with the Department and had not been cleared by the Minister. We are not going down that road with this meeting. If there is a report, we need to see it. If it is not published, we will have to reschedule. We have agreed provisionally to meet the Secretary General of...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will write immediately for an update. I have heard nothing on it in recent times. We can raise the issue when we deal with the accounts of the Department of Finance on 7 March but we will ask for an update now. In the meeting we will take Vote 8, which is the voted expenditure that funds the office of the Comptroller and Auditor General. The Comptroller and Auditor General is not the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Vote is taken in the Estimates of the Department of Finance. I do not know whether the Department of Finance wants to sit with the Accounting Officer. We may slot the meeting into the session we had earmarked for the Central Statistics Office, CSO.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will put it into the session we had set aside for the CSO because its representatives are not available on that day, or is that on a different day?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will arrange the timetable so that there is no crossover between the topics. They will have separate sessions. We will deal with the Vote of the Comptroller and Auditor General on 7 March, the same day the Department of Finance will be in.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is one other item of correspondence, which we will deal with in private session after we conclude our meeting with the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board. It will not take very long but there are two or three items we have to deal with, one involving legal advice.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are now back in public session. This morning's session will involve an examination the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board financial statements for 2017. From the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board, we are joined by Mr. Tom Costello, chairman; Mr. John Pollock, project director; Dr. Emma Curtis, medical director; and Mr. Jim Farragher, finance officer. From the...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will now move on to the other opening statements from Mr. Jim Breslin from the Department of Health and Mr. John Pollock from the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board, which we received late last night so we are only seeing them this morning. Witnesses must bear with us as we did not get an opportunity to review them yesterday. I know the witnesses have appeared before other...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. Pollock. Before we start with questions from members, I want to contextualise this matter. This is an unusual meeting. I understand the witnesses have been before the Joint Committee on Health three times in the past fortnight. Those meetings lasted for almost 11 hours, approximately. We are coming in after that point. I will clarify some of the key issues. While some...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: People do not understand.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is where I am getting my figure.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Breslin is stating that the construction costs for the three main contractor groups was €637 million but all along there was another €346 million not included as part of that first figure.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Table 3 does not mention that. We are going to ask for a note. We will not do it now because I am sure the health committee has made requests. We have started with the price for construction at €637 million. All along, however, there was another €346 million that was not included in what people understood the cost to be.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is confusing because it refers to the approved business case. That business case was not the full business case. It was only a subset-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Breslin will understand how members of the health committee, and the public watching, saw this figure of €637 million as the cost, while all along he knew the figure was really €983 million.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (31 Jan 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is fine. The €637 million was only for the main contractors all along. There was always another €346 million, which came in time for the Government approval of the €983 million. A sum of €450 million has since been added to that amount. Mr. Breslin has used the phrase "including .. equipping", which refers to searching out the equipment to make it fit for...

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